181. Mushroom Mastery: Health Benefits and Science with Lee Carroll

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Hey, what's going on, everyone.

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Welcome to the elemental

admin podcast as always.

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This is your host, Evan Roberts.

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And on this podcast, I break down.

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Hell topics from a simplified

and holistic perspective.

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That way you can walk away from these

episodes and actually apply the knowledge

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within these episodes into your life.

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And hopefully give you a new

perspective on health altogether.

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Today's episode is going to be a guest.

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Uh, interview.

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So these episodes are some of my favorite

because I get to learn just as much as all

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of you on these episodes and really get to

connect with some really amazing people.

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Today's guest is going to be

one of those amazing people.

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His name is Lee Carroll and he is

the chief medical herbalist within

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the science team at real mushroom.

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So yes, this is going to

be an episode all about.

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Functional or slash medicinal mushrooms.

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Um, you can pretty much use

that interchangeably when

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it comes to those mushrooms.

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And we're going to be covering

things like you guess.

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Lion's mane, chaga, Rishi cordyceps,

all of the really popular, uh,

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functional or medicinal mushrooms.

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And we're going to dive

pretty deep into them.

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Uh, Lee has a ton of knowledge on.

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All of these mushrooms.

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So it was really fun to just kind of

pick his brain on some of the questions

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that I've had for a really long time.

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Which one of those was, is it better to

have the fruiting body or the mycelium

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in your, uh, mushroom product, which has

been a, kind of like an ongoing debate or

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at least an ongoing debate within myself?

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Like literally trying to

figure out which one is better.

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Um, and we talk about how lion's mane

has really been, uh, you know, kind

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of studied for their, my psyllium

benefits and if that's really true,

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or if the fruiting body as well has

benefit or, uh, just as much benefit.

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So.

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Anyways, there's a whole debate on that

and we're going to get into it today.

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Uh, super excited for this

episode for all of you to hear it.

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Uh, it was a true pleasure

for me to sit down with Lee

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and to have this conversation.

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And I just know y'all are going to have so

many good takeaways from today's episode.

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So be ready to.

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Uh, take some notes or

take some mental notes.

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And, uh, honestly, I hope

you all just enjoy it.

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Uh, Lee does give a 20% discount code,

I believe at the end of this episode.

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So make sure you stay tuned.

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Uh, for that code.

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And of course you can go to the,

uh, show notes or the description

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on this episode, and you will find

the link to real mushrooms and you

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can go ahead and use his code there.

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And as well, there's going to be all of

our other, uh, great sponsors of the show.

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So feel free to check them out as

well, but that is going to do it feel

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free to connect with Lee as well.

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He is a really.

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Genuinely cool person and has a ton

of knowledge on all things mushrooms.

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So if you have questions.

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Uh, that go beyond what we cover in

today's episode for one, feel free to

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reach out to him personally, or reach out

to me and let me know these questions.

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And I'm happy to bring

him back onto the show.

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I'm already planning on bringing him back

on, but, um, if you have some questions

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for him, I'd be happy to ask them.

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So feel free to reach

out to me on Instagram.

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That's usually the best

way to connect with me.

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And, uh, I'll try to include, uh, some way

in which you can connect with Lee as well.

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Uh, in the show notes or the

description of today's episode.

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Anyways, that is going to do it for today.

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I hope you all enjoy.

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Let's go ahead and jump into today's

episode and get right into it.

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Um, we start off with a really interesting

and catchy topic, so I hope you all enjoy.

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Uh, thank you so much for

being here and listening today.

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And without further ado

here is Lee Carroll.

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but what is, what is Rishi do

specifically for the erectile dysfunction

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or, , anything related to ed, I guess.

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Um, well, ED in a young man or

younger man, uh, is a sign of

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future cardiovascular disease.

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So, um, you know, to get an erection,

you've got to have proper, um,

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you know, venous tone, you've got

to produce the right amount of

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nitric oxide to get the relaxation.

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So your penis can fill

with blood, et cetera.

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So those same mechanisms are

involved in all of the vasculature.

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So if you have, if you have.

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trouble getting in and

holding an erection.

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Uh, it and you're younger, it puts you

at significantly increased risk for

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cardiovascular disease later in life.

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And Reishi plays a role in prevention

of cardiovascular disease, not as a

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treatment, which is where all of the

research is, but as a lifestyle choice.

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So if you consume Reishi on a, on a

daily basis over the course of your life,

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the, but particularly the triterpenes,

Uh, but in this case, a lesser extent,

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the beta glucans, they have a, they

support the lining of the blood vessels,

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um, in a way that keeps the linings

of the blood vessels healthier, um,

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to resist the stresses and strains.

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So, It might be a little bit technical,

but the, the plumbing of your, of

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your arterial system, um, creates

weaknesses in the flow of the blood.

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So one of the curiosities of, uh, about

the lining of the vascular system,

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particularly the vein, uh, particularly

the arteries, is that the, the linings

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require the constant movement of the

blood, the agitation, the technical

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term, sheer stress when a liquid.

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Bumps up against a

surface and it moves it.

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That's called shear stress.

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So this is why cardiovascular exercise

is so important so that you've got You've

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got the movement of the blood against

the lining of your arteries And if an

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artery goes around a bend you get more

of that shear stress on the outside You

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get less shear stress on the inside.

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So the inside is where you get

atherosclerotic plaques So our, the

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plumbing of our arterial system's

got this inbuilt weakness in it,

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and we need to engage in lifestyle

things in terms of reishi every day,

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green tea every day, cacao every day.

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Um, you know, these are supplements which

deliver, um, compounds which can keep

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and maintain the health of those tissues.

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Resveratrol plays a role there as well.

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Um, highly bioavailable curcumin, and

you need regular exercise to do that.

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So, um, Reishi's key role is getting the,

the, the triterpenes get taken up by the

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endothelial cells, and then when the, when

the triterpenes are in the endothelial

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cells, they allow that cell to, um,

be more functional under the stress.

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And to a certain extent, repair

the dysfunction that gets created

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by the, by the regular stress.

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The whole atherosclerosis thing, you

know, that's, that's a long discussion

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and it has other factors involved like

dental health plays a role if you don't

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floss your teeth, then bacteria get into

your bloodstream through you through

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that connection between your gum and

your teeth and atherosclerotic plaques

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are breeding grounds, particularly for

bacteria, but particularly oral bacteria.

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So, um, mushrooms in general

play a role in that process.

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At a secondary level because

they help they help maintain

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that immunological environment.

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So you have less of a biological, you

know, burden, you know, of those bacteria,

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but it's fascinating how you can go down

these rabbit holes, you know, when, you

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know, talking about human health and how

each individual supplement, you know,

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kind of fits in, it's fascinating and that

continual aspect of knowledge and learning

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and me joining the dots together, creating

a bigger picture is really fascinating.

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Uh, it keeps me, keeps me going and at

65, I'm still fascinated by all this

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stuff and there's still plenty to learn.

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Yeah, it's as you were like going

through that whole process, that

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was literally what I kept coming

to was how connected the body is in

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like one thing affecting another.

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Um, primarily, it definitely kind of

brings up ideas of my dad who, uh,

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he's dealt with some heart issues,

uh, part, part of his heart works

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harder than the other portion.

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So, um, essentially it's like

an imbalanced heart and, uh,

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I've worked with him quite a lot

and just cleaning up his diet.

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Um, one of the things that you

mentioned as well was cacao and that's

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a, that's a big one that I've, I've

added into his kind of daily routine.

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So like cacao nibs and raw cacao.

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Um, and it's really cool because he

has seen like massive improvements

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in his heart, uh, his heart

quality, um, in his checkups.

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So it's really cool.

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It's cool to see like that

all kind of tying together.

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Um, but also like, you know, we started

with like ed and then moved into

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there and it, but it is, it's all,

it's all combined and, and connected.

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And, uh, even have you heard of like

mouth taping at night when you sleep?

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And so that, you know, so then you

breathe through your nose and supposedly

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you produce more nitric oxide by

breathing through your nose at night.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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It's just a, it's a much

healthier way to breathe.

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You know, it's a very popular thing.

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Then you got the Reishi with, you

know, it being the longevity mushroom.

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Uh, it's, uh, seems like

it's just a good combo.

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So that's actually, I've had my

dad take Reishi, but I think I'm

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going to really highlight that.

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It'd be a great one for him to, to have.

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But, um, yeah, and then like physical

activity, I think that's the one thing

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that's kind of saved him is he's always

had a physical job, like a laborious job.

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And, and I think that's

really, uh, played a big role.

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But.

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Um, yeah, Rishi, is Rishi

your favorite mushroom?

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Actually, I didn't ask you this

last time you asked me, but what,

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uh, what's your favorite mushroom?

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Um, yeah, well, it depends on what

day of the week and what week of

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the month and a whole lot of things.

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So, um, I think Rishi is the

mushroom that I consume the most.

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So that probably puts it into my favorite.

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Um,

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There's not that many mushrooms,

uh, that we have access to that

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are like in that supplement realm.

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And my advice to people is to

consume as many mushrooms in

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a supplement form as possible.

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And it's easy to do, you know, there's

lots of, you know, products on the market.

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I'm working with real mushrooms.

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They've got a great thing called

five defenders, for example, which.

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Um, you know, has, um, you know,

reishi and turkey tail and shiitake

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and maitake, um, and lion's mane.

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Um, so it's, it's a very kind of well

balanced and then you get all of the

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aspects of all of the mushrooms because

mushrooms do lots and lots of things.

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Um, if you were to ask me a different

question, like what's your favorite

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thing about mushrooms, you know, that,

that makes them work, then I'd say

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ergothionine, a lot of the focus is on.

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Beta glucans, but I think the

most fascinating, um, more recent

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discovery around mushrooms is

this thing called ergothionein.

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I, I like to joke that it's

the most important nutrient

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that people don't know about.

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So everybody thinks they're the kings of

antioxidant support and how to deal with

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oxidative stress in the body, but Hardly

any of the commentators, uh, you know,

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discussing ergotheanine as part of the

conversation and, and in terms of the

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human body, um, it's right up there as one

of the most important things that we need.

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And the, the major place that we get

it from in our diet, because it is

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a nutrient is, is from mushrooms.

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So just consuming any mushrooms, uh,

you know, is important for human health.

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Yeah, and I know we had, we touched

on ergothionine and, and kind of the

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benefits of it, but run me through

again, what the, the massive benefits, I

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know you mentioned like an antioxidant,

but, um, yeah, what are, what are

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the major benefits of it as well?

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You said last time that lion's mane has a

lot, but is that the one that's the most

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potent in ergothionine that we know of?

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Now the one that's, uh, best,

uh, to use in a commercial

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setting, um, is the yellow oyster.

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So a mushroom like, um, the bolete, so

porcini, Boletus edulis, which is the

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kind of culinary mushroom in Italy,

that's got, you know, quite high levels.

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But the yellow oyster, there's different

varieties of that, um, and you can

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have quite vastly different levels.

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Golden oyster mushrooms are like

a kind of ergotheanine factory.

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So ergo plus from real mushrooms

is made using golden oyster.

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And you get a minimum of

five milligrams per capsule.

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So what is it?

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It's an, it's an antioxidant.

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that the body needs to maintain health.

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So our body doesn't manufacture vitamin C.

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For example, we have to

get that from our diet.

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We can't manufacture vitamin D.

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So we have to, we can from

cholesterol and sunlight, but we

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don't do that very efficiently.

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So we have to get some

from a supplemental source.

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So ergotheanine is in

that kind of Um, category.

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It doesn't quite meet the

definition of a vitamin.

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So, if you're deficient in ergothionine,

you don't get one specific disease.

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Like with, with, um,

vitamin C, you get scurvy.

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If you don't get enough

vitamin D, you'll get rickets.

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Um, so if you don't get enough, if,

if laboratory animals don't get enough

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ergothionine, they don't live as long.

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They, um, and they get more

diseases involving oxidative stress.

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So, ergotheanine is an antioxidant

that plays a role in just about

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all of the cells in the body.

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Um, to give an evolutionary importance

to it, because I can say the body needs

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it, but how do I prove that, um, you

know, the, the, the absorptive surfaces

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in our gut have got transporters that are

dedicated for that particular molecule.

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They move a few other things, but

ergotheanine is the primary thing.

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They bring that in from the gut.

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And our digestion is almost 100

percent complete on the ability to,

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to bring that molecule into our body.

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And then all of the cells in

our body have got these same

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transporters to take that molecule in.

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And then the biology of it, because

antioxidants, you know, it's a difficult

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kind of complex topic to talk about.

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Um, but every cell, um, is, has got the

ability to produce energy and respiration.

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So the waste production of those cells,

like the exhaust out of your petrol

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driven car, um, that waste, um, is toxic.

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Um, it also signals, you know,

certain, um, cellular processes.

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So it has some positive roles as

well, but it, it needs to be dealt

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with because if that waste builds

up, then the cells can't function

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and that waste is acidic in nature.

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So if you don't deal with your stress

at that cellular level properly,

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cells become more acidic and then.

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Proteins don't work

properly and you get stress.

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And, um, you know, the most obvious sign

of that is like when your muscles cramp up

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at the, at the fatigue point in exercise,

the pH gets so high in your muscle cells

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that they just kind of stop working.

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So, uh, ergotheanine plays a

role in managing that pH change.

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So it's, it's a backup defense

supporting glutathione to ensure that

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All of the cells in the body, um, are

always in optimal kind of conditions.

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And if you have low levels of

ergothionine, then all sorts of diseases

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of oxidative stress start to manifest.

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So if you have low ergothionine

across your lifespan, you'll

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have more cardiovascular disease.

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As we were just discussing, um,

you'll have more neurodegenerative

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disease, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's,

mild cognitive impairment.

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You as an older person,

you won't sleep as well.

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Um, you're more likely to

get macular degeneration.

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If you're a woman, you're more

likely to have preeclampsia.

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Um, if you're a woman, you're more likely

to have, you know, a, a birth, which is,

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might be below weight or, or overweight.

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There's all of these very.

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highly specific things that we can, we

can talk about in terms of ergotheanine.

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But we need only about four

or five milligrams a day to

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give what the body needs.

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And the average American is

only getting, uh, about 1.

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1 milligrams a day based on the

epidemiology that's been done.

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So every American has got a, a nutritional

deficiency of this key molecule.

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Which helps to play into the

disease burden that we, we see in

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the population as people get older.

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And so is, why is it so hard

to get it in for Americans?

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Like why, uh, is it just, we're, we're

just not eating foods that contain it?

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Like, for example, if we did have more,

what was it porcini that you mentioned,

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or like the yellow oyster mushrooms?

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Like if we were eating that on a more

regular basis, would it be a very

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obtainable amount to hit in a day?

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That's the best answer, and the

reason for the low levels is that

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the average, the average American's

not eating enough mushrooms.

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And it doesn't matter what sort

of mushroom it is, and most of the

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epidemiology is done on mushrooms that

are commonly eaten as foods, so that's

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like agaricus mushroom, so porcini, uh,

not porcini, portobello, button, crimini.

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Um, or from an Asian perspective,

uh, you know, where a lot of this

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epidemiology is done, shiitake,

oyster, um, wood ear mushrooms, enoki.

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: 00:18:15

So, those mushrooms, you only

need to eat them, uh, you

292

: 00:18:19

know, like a few times a week.

293

: 00:18:21

to get the benefits in these

cognitive trials, for example.

294

: 00:18:25

So the other place that ergo

comes from is the soil fungi and

295

: 00:18:30

certain bacteria in the soil.

296

: 00:18:32

So plants will take it up.

297

: 00:18:35

So you get, people get some

ergotheionine from plants, but it's

298

: 00:18:39

one to two orders of magnitude less.

299

: 00:18:41

So it's 10 to a hundred times less.

300

: 00:18:43

Uh, from a plant that

it is from a mushroom.

301

: 00:18:47

So the problem with plant sourced ergo

theanine is that modern agricultural

302

: 00:18:53

practices, which rely on heavy tilling

and lots of fertilizer disrupt the

303

: 00:18:59

fungal environment in the soil.

304

: 00:19:01

And it doesn't, there's not as

much fungi, so the plants don't get

305

: 00:19:05

as much ergo thine, uh, you know,

when the, when plants are grown

306

: 00:19:10

in that intense agricultural way.

307

: 00:19:13

So, the other problem is that we, and

we don't know the answer to this, that

308

: 00:19:17

as people age, they tend to reduce

their plasma levels of ergothionine.

309

: 00:19:24

So even though you might be

taking it, your body might not

310

: 00:19:27

be as efficient at taking it up.

311

: 00:19:30

Or there might be a much greater

need for it so it gets consumed.

312

: 00:19:34

So, um, you know, as we, as

we age, it puts a greater

313

: 00:19:38

emphasis on supplementing it.

314

: 00:19:40

But to put, to put like a full

stop on the comment, um, we need to

315

: 00:19:47

redesign the food pyramid so that

vegetables and mushrooms get separated

316

: 00:19:51

because currently they're together.

317

: 00:19:53

So we need mushrooms

as their own category.

318

: 00:19:55

And the dietary advice needs to be.

319

: 00:19:58

eat as many mushrooms as you can a

week, uh, at least, um, twice a week.

320

: 00:20:03

And if you want to be really healthy,

you could replace a meat dish once or

321

: 00:20:08

twice a week with, with the same amount

of mushrooms to, um, you know, prevent

322

: 00:20:14

that or take a mushroom supplement

every day, like real mushrooms, ergo

323

: 00:20:18

plus just one capsule a day, Monday

to Friday, and you're done and dusted.

324

: 00:20:25

Yeah.

325

: 00:20:26

It's, uh, coming back to the, Eating

of mushrooms and like, consuming

326

: 00:20:32

them as like a culinary experience.

327

: 00:20:35

I guess I will say, uh, oyster

mushrooms is probably the closest.

328

: 00:20:41

meat alternative that

I've ever had personally.

329

: 00:20:44

Um, I mean, I do eat meat, but when I

was down in, uh, Cusco, uh, in Peru,

330

: 00:20:50

there was a little cafe and I got like

a, a mixed bowl with quinoa and other

331

: 00:20:56

things, but it had oyster mushroom.

332

: 00:20:58

And I have no idea.

333

: 00:21:00

What kind of seasoning they put on it,

but I swear it was the best Mushroom

334

: 00:21:08

like meat alternative that I could

have ever experienced and alls It

335

: 00:21:11

was was literally oyster mushroom

the way they cooked it and seasoned.

336

: 00:21:14

It was perfect But um, does that

have something to do with the

337

: 00:21:19

like because I've heard that we

share more DNA with mushrooms

338

: 00:21:24

than mushrooms share with plants.

339

: 00:21:26

Is that correct?

340

: 00:21:27

Yeah, that is correct.

341

: 00:21:28

Um, it does.

342

: 00:21:30

Does that play a role in

the texture of the mushroom?

343

: 00:21:34

Um, no, but, um, it plays a

role in the overall context

344

: 00:21:38

of what we're talking about.

345

: 00:21:40

Um, oyster mushrooms, I think

are very, very underrated as

346

: 00:21:43

a, as a, as a medicinal food.

347

: 00:21:46

So they're very high in the ergotheanine

that we just talked about, but.

348

: 00:21:50

There's a, there's a lot of clinical

trials in, particularly in children

349

: 00:21:54

where if you, if you give children oyster

mushroom extracts on a regular basis, they

350

: 00:21:59

get significantly less winter infections.

351

: 00:22:02

They're not as severe.

352

: 00:22:03

They don't last as long.

353

: 00:22:05

They have less complications and

they're more vital, you know,

354

: 00:22:08

when they finish that infection.

355

: 00:22:10

So the immunological benefits of oyster

mushrooms a bit underrated, but the,

356

: 00:22:15

that evolutionary connection that you

mentioned, um, if you go back in time,

357

: 00:22:21

I don't know the exact point, but, you

know, it doesn't really matter that much.

358

: 00:22:24

Let's just say a thousand million

years, so like a billion years

359

: 00:22:27

ago, um, animals and fungi had a

common ancestor, so we've split off.

360

: 00:22:33

If you went further back in time,

you'd get to where plants split

361

: 00:22:39

off from their common ancestor.

362

: 00:22:41

which was, you know, our

fungal animal common ancestor.

363

: 00:22:45

So, when we, when animals and

fungi broke off, um, a lot of the

364

: 00:22:50

cellulum machinery, um, was retained.

365

: 00:22:54

And some of it identically,

and some of it analogously.

366

: 00:22:58

So, uh, depending on which scientific

paper you look at, it's about 30

367

: 00:23:02

percent of the DNA that, that a

human shares with, with a fungus.

368

: 00:23:07

And you can, in a fungus, um, it

uses Ergotheanine is its primary

369

: 00:23:13

antioxidant inside the cells, and

glutathione is the secondary antioxidant.

370

: 00:23:18

And there's a unique one in a

mushroom, in a fungus called mycothiol.

371

: 00:23:22

But in humans, the, the, the main,

um, intracellular water soluble

372

: 00:23:28

antioxidant is glutathione, and the

backup antioxidant is ergotheanine.

373

: 00:23:34

So they're the same two molecules, but

when you come into the animal, they get

374

: 00:23:38

flipped around in terms of how they work.

375

: 00:23:40

So there's a direct one to one

relationship between how fungus

376

: 00:23:46

Or fungal organisms and animals,

humans, all vertebrates, um,

377

: 00:23:50

control their intracellular stress.

378

: 00:23:52

Um, another clear

correlation is cholesterol.

379

: 00:23:56

So we need cholesterol molecules

in our cell membranes to make them,

380

: 00:24:01

um, pliable and conduct the right,

you know, signals, et cetera.

381

: 00:24:06

Um, so in humans we have cholesterol, in

a fungus we have ergosterol or ergosterol.

382

: 00:24:13

And they have almost identical shapes.

383

: 00:24:16

And if you expose ergosterol to

sunlight, you get vitamin D2.

384

: 00:24:22

And if you expose cholesterol

to sunlight, you get vitamin D3.

385

: 00:24:27

And then from there, it becomes a lot

more kind of scientific and nerdy, but

386

: 00:24:32

there's lots of intracellular stuff that

we share in terms of how the cells work,

387

: 00:24:38

cytoskeletal arrangements and particular

enzymes and And, um, protein pathways.

388

: 00:24:45

So it's, it really is fascinating that,

you know, we've got this close history.

389

: 00:24:50

And because we've got that shared

history and we happen together, and

390

: 00:24:55

this, these early events happened in

the primordial ocean, so a fungus was

391

: 00:24:59

always trying to attack a, uh, an animal.

392

: 00:25:02

Because we all need food to survive.

393

: 00:25:04

So fungi, like, like animals, they

breathe oxygen, um, and they need to

394

: 00:25:09

digest their food, but a fungus doesn't

have a stomach, so it secretes its

395

: 00:25:14

digestive juices on the outside, and

then sucks in the nutrients that have

396

: 00:25:18

been digested in through its cell wall.

397

: 00:25:22

Um, our, um, our warm blooded

nature is a relatively recent, um,

398

: 00:25:28

kind of invention, biologically.

399

: 00:25:31

And, uh, a fungus has a lot of

trouble attacking, um, an animal.

400

: 00:25:37

We've got all of these elaborate

defenses that have developed over,

401

: 00:25:39

uh, four or 500 million years.

402

: 00:25:42

The earliest defense proteins

that are observed in sea sponges

403

: 00:25:47

are like 400 million years old.

404

: 00:25:49

So the human body has

got incredible vigilance.

405

: 00:25:54

For the presence of a pathogenic fungi.

406

: 00:25:58

So that's why we don't

get many fungal diseases.

407

: 00:26:00

You know, we get tinea, we get

athlete's foot, we get jock itch,

408

: 00:26:04

um, you know, we get ringworm, you

know, getting serious fungal diseases

409

: 00:26:09

only happens in people that are

immunocompromised or they're on drugs

410

: 00:26:12

that are suppressing their immune system.

411

: 00:26:15

So.

412

: 00:26:16

Um, part of that approach, uh, that our

body has is that it's, it's very vigilant

413

: 00:26:22

to the recognition of the beta glucan

signatures that fungal organisms have, and

414

: 00:26:29

that kind of sets the alarm bells ringing.

415

: 00:26:31

So when we consume a medicinal or

a functional mushroom, it doesn't

416

: 00:26:36

have any pathogenic properties.

417

: 00:26:38

It's not, you know, not like, um,

you know, that TV show where the

418

: 00:26:43

cordyceps started infecting humans.

419

: 00:26:46

You know, that, that can't

happen, but these molecules.

420

: 00:26:52

still ring the alarm bells, but they

ring the alarm bells in a way of the

421

: 00:26:56

immune system to tell the immune system,

Hey, I'm not pathogenic, but you real,

422

: 00:27:01

I could be, um, you need to be more

vigilant about surveying your environment.

423

: 00:27:06

You need to be more capable

of responding to infections.

424

: 00:27:09

You need to be better at communicating

very specific messages that

425

: 00:27:13

deal with very specific threats.

426

: 00:27:15

And you need to be able to

control the whole process.

427

: 00:27:19

without getting too crazy without

having, you know, a burden of

428

: 00:27:22

too much, uh, inflammation, which

might take you down, you know,

429

: 00:27:26

kind of like an autoimmune disease.

430

: 00:27:28

So medicinal mushrooms deliver these

really educated messages that keep the

431

: 00:27:33

immune system and all of the cells in

our body that can communicate with the

432

: 00:27:38

immune system in a healthy, balanced way.

433

: 00:27:41

So that.

434

: 00:27:42

We can be free of disease

as we live our lives.

435

: 00:27:45

And part of the problem I think with

a modern human is that we don't, we

436

: 00:27:48

haven't understood this very well.

437

: 00:27:50

Science has been really

slow to investigate this.

438

: 00:27:53

Mycophobia exists as a real

thing with our diet, but it

439

: 00:27:57

also exists in scientists minds.

440

: 00:28:00

Though a lot of fungal discoveries have

been delayed because people just haven't,

441

: 00:28:05

they haven't even thought about a fungus.

442

: 00:28:07

Or they haven't, um, you know,

investigated it because of the

443

: 00:28:11

inherent bias that they've got.

444

: 00:28:13

And we can talk about it later if

you want to, but that plays into, um,

445

: 00:28:18

paleological and, um, evolutionary

diets, you know, the, the consumption of

446

: 00:28:24

meat that we attribute to early humans.

447

: 00:28:27

It's based on isotopes of carbon and

nitrogen that are measured in ancient

448

: 00:28:32

skeletons by looking at the collagen.

449

: 00:28:34

Well, when you eat a mushroom, it

delivers the same isotopes of carbon and

450

: 00:28:38

nitrogen, so all of the research that says

humans ate this much protein has never

451

: 00:28:43

taken into account the fact that early

humans were avid consumers of mushrooms.

452

: 00:28:47

So the amount of mushrooms that we consume

in our diet has been overlooked totally,

453

: 00:28:54

uh, because there's kind of scant evidence

and there's been no interest in doing it.

454

: 00:28:58

So the whole evolutionary

thing is really fascinating.

455

: 00:29:02

And I've coined this term called the, uh,

Gourmet ape theory to describe the fact

456

: 00:29:08

that, you know, um, Terence McKenna was

the proponent of the stoned ape theory,

457

: 00:29:13

that psychedelics were played a big part

in the development of the human brain.

458

: 00:29:17

But I think mushrooms in general,

um, as a food, and particularly

459

: 00:29:22

the ergothenia have played a really

important role, uh, for a much longer

460

: 00:29:26

period of time in the development,

you know, of the, of the modern human.

461

: 00:29:31

It's a really fascinating topic.

462

: 00:29:34

It absolutely is.

463

: 00:29:37

I mean, there's a, I'm pretty much just

here like in a lecture cause I am, I'm

464

: 00:29:41

taking notes, you know, sorry about that.

465

: 00:29:45

No, no, don't, don't apologize.

466

: 00:29:46

Like I, I enjoy this and

it's super fascinating to me.

467

: 00:29:50

Um, uh, I, I agree with, you know,

the, the gourmet theory here,

468

: 00:29:55

uh, in the gourmet ape, right.

469

: 00:29:57

Um, because yeah, I do think.

470

: 00:30:00

Obviously we've been consuming mushrooms

for a long time and, and, uh, who knows

471

: 00:30:03

what, what role that's played and, and,

you know, going back and looking at,

472

: 00:30:08

like you said, looking at the isotopes

and checking these out, like obviously

473

: 00:30:12

more research needs to be done for us

to have a strong understanding on that.

474

: 00:30:15

But I really want to go into

these medicinal mushrooms

475

: 00:30:21

and we're going to dive deep.

476

: 00:30:23

But I have to take us back just a

little bit because there's a question

477

: 00:30:26

I've always wondered and you kind of

mentioned it, but so it is true that

478

: 00:30:30

if you take mushrooms and put them

out in sunlight for 30 minutes or so

479

: 00:30:36

before cooking them, it's a good idea

to increase by it'll like it'll increase

480

: 00:30:40

the vitamin D levels of the mushrooms.

481

: 00:30:43

It will.

482

: 00:30:43

Yeah.

483

: 00:30:44

So, um, it depends on the latitude

in the world where you are.

484

: 00:30:49

It depends on the time of the year.

485

: 00:30:50

So, um, you know, summer, the more

vertical the sun is, the more particular

486

: 00:30:55

UV rays you get to do that job.

487

: 00:30:57

So, um, if you're going to do that,

gills up is the best way because

488

: 00:31:01

there's lots of ergosterol in the gills.

489

: 00:31:03

There's less like in the.

490

: 00:31:06

surface.

491

: 00:31:07

Um, if you want to go to the trouble

of cutting them up, that's even better

492

: 00:31:10

because you increase the surface area.

493

: 00:31:13

It works with fresh and

dried mushrooms as well.

494

: 00:31:16

So if you put a powder out, um,

you'll get that conversion as well.

495

: 00:31:20

However, I'm, I would consider myself

a mycophile and I started doing

496

: 00:31:24

that and it gets old really quickly.

497

: 00:31:28

You do it maybe half a dozen times

and you're like, Oh, Damn, I'm just

498

: 00:31:32

gonna go and buy, you know, a ready

made one and Real Mushrooms has got

499

: 00:31:36

a vitamin D2 product where the, the

mushrooms are, um, irradiated with

500

: 00:31:42

UV light to optimize the, the vitamin

D2 and you can get a guaranteed dose.

501

: 00:31:48

But if you are the more OCD type

and you can create a habit around

502

: 00:31:52

doing something like that, then,

uh, yeah, you should go for it.

503

: 00:31:55

Um, it's, it's a legitimate thing to do.

504

: 00:31:59

Okay, good.

505

: 00:31:59

Yeah, I was, I was curious on it.

506

: 00:32:01

I think I will fall into the same category

as you where, um, you know, I sometimes

507

: 00:32:06

like forget to take, I don't know,

chicken or whatever out of the freezer.

508

: 00:32:11

It's like, Oh my God.

509

: 00:32:11

So cutting up mushrooms and putting

them in the sunlight is probably just

510

: 00:32:15

going to be a another barrier there.

511

: 00:32:17

But in terms of, uh, real mushrooms,

which obviously we, uh, we've kind of

512

: 00:32:22

just skimmed over it and, and I want to

give you the opportunity to, uh, talk

513

: 00:32:25

a little bit more about real mushrooms.

514

: 00:32:27

Cause, you know, They're amazing.

515

: 00:32:28

I love what y'all are about.

516

: 00:32:29

But one of the things that, um,

you were mentioning that real

517

: 00:32:33

mushrooms does, uh, is this dual

extraction, which is super important.

518

: 00:32:39

Um, but also you, uh, using, sorry,

sorry, actually extracting from both

519

: 00:32:45

the fruiting body and the mycelium.

520

: 00:32:48

So for a while, uh, I don't know, four

or five years ago, Uh, I kind of got to a

521

: 00:32:56

point where I wasn't super, I don't know.

522

: 00:33:00

I didn't really care to take mycelium.

523

: 00:33:02

I was more so just, uh, focused on

the fruiting body because you could

524

: 00:33:05

know that, Hey, this is fruiting body.

525

: 00:33:07

It is like pure mushroom that we're,

you know, either consuming or having

526

: 00:33:11

the extract of, whereas the mycelium,

uh, typically grown on rice or, you

527

: 00:33:15

know, who knows what the medium is, but

then, uh, it's very difficult to know.

528

: 00:33:20

What the quantity is of that

that you're receiving in there.

529

: 00:33:22

So for a while, I was really big on

pretty much just going with fruiting body.

530

: 00:33:26

And if I did get some mycelium, it was.

531

: 00:33:29

Here or there.

532

: 00:33:30

I believe there is some huge benefit in

the mycelium, but how do we get around

533

: 00:33:35

this issue of the Medium kind of taking

up a majority of quote unquote mycelium

534

: 00:33:42

when we're taking like a supplement Yeah,

it's a, it's a really good question.

535

: 00:33:47

It's quite a vexing question.

536

: 00:33:49

As a, like, as a practicing medical

herbalist, um, and someone, you

537

: 00:33:55

know, I, I put myself in the position

as, you know, like a mentor and an

538

: 00:33:59

educator and as well as promoting,

um, Um, you know, good health.

539

: 00:34:04

I'm also cognizant of making sure

that I honor the traditions that I

540

: 00:34:07

come from, though, when you step out

of that clinical realm where, you

541

: 00:34:14

know, the focus is on doing whatever

is the right thing by the patient.

542

: 00:34:17

When you come into the retail world, Kind

of, it's a bit like guerrilla tactics,

543

: 00:34:21

like the gloves are off, uh, people can

say anything they like, people can make

544

: 00:34:26

anything they like, they don't feel any

compunction to honor any tradition or

545

: 00:34:30

validate, you know, the, the science

around any unique discoveries that,

546

: 00:34:35

that they might think that they've made.

547

: 00:34:37

So it's created a lot of

confusion in the marketplace.

548

: 00:34:41

So I think one of the, one of the really

important impressive things about real

549

: 00:34:46

mushrooms is that they honor the tradition

from which functional mushrooms come from.

550

: 00:34:52

And the products that they produce are

a reflection of those kind of ancient

551

: 00:34:59

kind of practices and the traditional

knowledge that's come through time.

552

: 00:35:03

And the products are all

focused on fruiting bodies.

553

: 00:35:08

Mushrooms is kind of like the generic

term that we use because that's

554

: 00:35:12

where all of the tradition is.

555

: 00:35:13

Um, so if we want to think about

mycelium, um, mycelium is the

556

: 00:35:20

main body of the fungal organism.

557

: 00:35:23

It's what seeks out food.

558

: 00:35:25

Um, it's, it's focus is on survival

throughout, not just its lifespan,

559

: 00:35:31

but, um, creating the environment

so that its offspring can, uh, you

560

: 00:35:36

know, perpetuate into the future.

561

: 00:35:38

So the, the mycelium is, is like the

main body of the organism and it's

562

: 00:35:47

got a particular genetic makeup.

563

: 00:35:49

That's around seeking out food, uh,

defending itself against predators,

564

: 00:35:54

defending itself against stressful

environments, and surviving through time.

565

: 00:35:59

And then, when the conditions are right,

that organism will say, okay, it's,

566

: 00:36:05

now's the right time to reproduce.

567

: 00:36:07

So, it will produce Um, a, uh,

a reproductive structure and

568

: 00:36:12

depending on the type of fungus,

you know, there's different forms.

569

: 00:36:15

So we use the word mushroom, but,

um, a cordyceps, uh, reproductive

570

: 00:36:21

structure has got different morphology

and characteristics to a shiitake

571

: 00:36:25

mushroom, which is different to

chaga, which is different to reishi.

572

: 00:36:29

So there's kind of nuances, but so

when the, when the timing is right, a

573

: 00:36:33

reproductive structure will get produced.

574

: 00:36:36

And the purpose of that reproductive

structure is to make spores, which will

575

: 00:36:40

then unite, grow a little, little version

of a hyphae, and then they'll unite with

576

: 00:36:45

another organism's spore, and then you'll

get like a sexual reproduction, and then

577

: 00:36:50

you can get a continuation of the species.

578

: 00:36:52

So, the purpose of the, of the

reproductive structure is to do

579

: 00:36:56

that, but it's also to, ensure

the dispersal of those spores.

580

: 00:37:01

So a lot of different mushrooms have

got different dispersal techniques,

581

: 00:37:05

and then those mushrooms need to

defend themselves against animal

582

: 00:37:08

grazing, insect attack, um, bacterial

infiltration, et cetera, et cetera.

583

: 00:37:14

So the chemistry of that reproductive

structure is significantly different

584

: 00:37:20

to the chemistry of the mycelium.

585

: 00:37:22

They're, they're

completely different parts.

586

: 00:37:24

So if I said to you, Evan, you know,

close your eyes, I've got the, I've

587

: 00:37:29

got the best apple, um, you've,

you've ever tasted in the world.

588

: 00:37:33

This is going to just blow your

hair back and put your hand out

589

: 00:37:37

and I'll, I'll put it in your hand.

590

: 00:37:38

And then I'll ask you to open your eyes.

591

: 00:37:41

And in your hand is an apple leaf.

592

: 00:37:43

And you'll be like, what the hell, Lee?

593

: 00:37:45

Like you don't eat apple leaves.

594

: 00:37:47

You eat apple fruit.

595

: 00:37:49

And that's the distinction that you have

between just using that silly example.

596

: 00:37:55

Um, if you wanted the perfect example,

the apple is the reproductive structure

597

: 00:38:00

or the mushroom and the entire rest

of the tree is the fungal organism.

598

: 00:38:05

So you can't compare them.

599

: 00:38:07

Um, so scientists back in the 60s

and 70s discovered that the beta

600

: 00:38:15

glucans from some of these mushrooms.

601

: 00:38:17

If you could purify them and treat

them in a particular way, you could

602

: 00:38:20

get these really powerful medicines.

603

: 00:38:22

And they needed vast amounts of,

of, um, beta glucan to do that.

604

: 00:38:28

And the easiest and most cost

effective way to do it was to grow

605

: 00:38:32

the mycelium in a liquid tank.

606

: 00:38:34

And it would never produce

a reproductive structure.

607

: 00:38:37

And then when you finished your

production, you'd drain the tank,

608

: 00:38:41

you'd get the mycelium, and then

you would extract that mycelium

609

: 00:38:44

to get access to the beta glucans.

610

: 00:38:47

So these very highly

specific drugs were made.

611

: 00:38:50

And they're what's used to treat

cancers and all sorts of diseases.

612

: 00:38:54

And in countries like China and

Japan and Korea and Taiwan, they've

613

: 00:38:58

got kind of legitimate drug status.

614

: 00:39:01

Um, so when you grow mycelium like that,

um, it doesn't have the same nutrients

615

: 00:39:06

so it can't make the same molecules.

616

: 00:39:08

So reishi fruiting bodies are very high

in the bit of triterpenes, but reishi

617

: 00:39:13

mycelium grown in a tank doesn't have

any triterpenes because it doesn't have

618

: 00:39:17

the raw materials to make them because

they come from the wood from the tree.

619

: 00:39:22

So if you wind forward, then some, some

bright spark at some point said we grow

620

: 00:39:28

mycelium on grain as the starting point

for the reproductive structure production.

621

: 00:39:34

So we grow mushrooms by creating grain

spawn and then using that to inoculate

622

: 00:39:39

the medium to get the, get the mushrooms.

623

: 00:39:42

So some bright spark said, let's grow

mycelium on brown rice or sorghum or oats.

624

: 00:39:48

And then we won't let those

Substrates produce fruiting bodies.

625

: 00:39:53

They might have little primordial, uh,

mushrooms, but, um, and then we'll grind

626

: 00:39:59

that up and sell it as if it's a mushroom.

627

: 00:40:01

Um, and that's a really dominant

part of the, of the market.

628

: 00:40:06

Those products may have clinical value.

629

: 00:40:09

The, the, it's still early

days in the research.

630

: 00:40:12

Um, if any, any value is derived

from those products, it doesn't

631

: 00:40:17

come from the fungal part.

632

: 00:40:19

Um, and if you just give me a couple of

more minutes to just tease that out a

633

: 00:40:23

little bit when you inoculate brown rice

with Uh, mycelium, and the conversion of

634

: 00:40:31

the brown rice to mycelium is never 100%.

635

: 00:40:34

Um, if you've ever had tempeh, you

know, you can still see the, the,

636

: 00:40:40

the soybeans, like in the tempeh, you

know, they don't all get converted.

637

: 00:40:44

I went and looked at some patents, and

some of the, The mycelium, uh, on grain

638

: 00:40:49

producers have got patents around these

products and they recommend, or they

639

: 00:40:54

suggest, around 35 percent conversion.

640

: 00:40:56

So, if you had a kilogram of brown rice,

that was wet and then you inoculated it

641

: 00:41:01

with say, turkey tail, um, at the end of

the manufacturing process, you'd have 650

642

: 00:41:09

grams of, of brown rice because 35 percent

of it would be converted to mycelium.

643

: 00:41:16

Mycelium is 90 percent water.

644

: 00:41:19

Brown rice is 50 percent water.

645

: 00:41:20

So if you dried that and we're taping

this, so people can go back and listen

646

: 00:41:25

to it again if the maths is a bit much.

647

: 00:41:27

So when you dry that, you've got, um,

You've got 325 grams of brown rice

648

: 00:41:34

because half of 650 is 325, and 10 percent

of 350 is 35 grams of dried mycelium.

649

: 00:41:43

So when you add those weights together

and then you do the calculation,

650

: 00:41:46

The dried mycelium is only about 9.

651

: 00:41:49

7, say 10 percent of that total weight.

652

: 00:41:52

So, when you analyze those products,

they don't have beta glucans in them,

653

: 00:41:56

um, only very, very small amounts.

654

: 00:41:59

They don't have ergotheanine

in them at detectable levels.

655

: 00:42:01

They have very low levels of any of

the secondary metabolites, in some

656

: 00:42:05

cases no secondary metabolites.

657

: 00:42:08

So, they're not a fungal product,

and two capsules which delivers a

658

: 00:42:13

thousand milligrams only contains

a hundred milligrams of mycelium.

659

: 00:42:18

Those products typically aren't extracted,

so you need to boil the mycelium to

660

: 00:42:23

get access to any of the beta glucans.

661

: 00:42:25

So that might be one of the reasons why

the beta glucan numbers are so high.

662

: 00:42:28

Uh, like very, very low

non non therapeutic levels.

663

: 00:42:33

So, uh, by marketing those

products as if they're a mushroom,

664

: 00:42:38

clearly they're not a mushroom.

665

: 00:42:39

They have no relationship to a mushroom.

666

: 00:42:41

They're a fungal fermented food.

667

: 00:42:43

So they should be classified

as a fermented kind of food if

668

: 00:42:46

they have any benefits at all.

669

: 00:42:48

And some of the research

suggests they might be.

670

: 00:42:51

It's to do with what the fungus

is doing to the brown rice.

671

: 00:42:54

Um, it's fermenting.

672

: 00:42:56

It's not the exactly correct

term, but it's close enough.

673

: 00:42:59

Um, so that there might be unique

molecules being created there, which

674

: 00:43:03

might, um, describe the benefits.

675

: 00:43:06

But, um, from my point of view,

and I'm, because I'm so old, I'm

676

: 00:43:10

65 next month, I've seen lots of,

I've seen lots of trends ruin,

677

: 00:43:16

um, you know, product categories.

678

: 00:43:18

Uh, when they're done well, so my fear is

that, you know, those products don't work

679

: 00:43:23

like a mushroom and people will take them

expecting the mushroom benefits because

680

: 00:43:27

that's how they're promoted and marketed,

uh, but people will do it for long enough,

681

: 00:43:31

but they won't get the benefits and then

they'll say the whole mushroom category is

682

: 00:43:34

no good and they'll give up on mushroom.

683

: 00:43:36

So, um, and those

products, they're kind of.

684

: 00:43:42

You know, their history is

with switch and bait marketing.

685

: 00:43:45

You know, they've tricked people into

thinking that they've been getting a

686

: 00:43:47

mushroom when they're really just getting

a bit of, you know, myceliated grain.

687

: 00:43:52

It's a bit scandalous, really.

688

: 00:43:54

So you can tell I'm a bit

passionate about this.

689

: 00:43:56

It kind of makes my

blood boil a little bit.

690

: 00:43:58

That there's this confusion and you

have to go to such elaborate lengths to

691

: 00:44:02

explain it and in a podcast like yours,

it's great that you allow me to just

692

: 00:44:07

talk because with a sound bite, with

like a 15 second snippet, you can never

693

: 00:44:13

convey the complexity that's needed

to convince someone that, you know,

694

: 00:44:18

there are these differences that exist

and they, they really are important.

695

: 00:44:22

Um, and you need to take them into

account if you're wanting to get

696

: 00:44:25

the best out of your supplement.

697

: 00:44:28

That's a bit of a rant, eh?

698

: 00:44:29

But, um, I see you kind of

nodding as I'm going along.

699

: 00:44:35

I, once again, I find this super

fascinating and it's, it's something

700

: 00:44:39

I've like always wondered about.

701

: 00:44:41

Uh, especially because I really

do, I enjoy, uh, Modesto mushrooms.

702

: 00:44:46

And, you know, I believe

that there's a ton of benefit

703

: 00:44:50

from them, especially for me.

704

: 00:44:53

I mean, uh, you know, of course,

having scientific backing is huge.

705

: 00:44:56

And I think it's it's the route to go.

706

: 00:44:59

Like, we want to back

our stuff in science.

707

: 00:45:00

But I think also that until the

science catches up, it's also

708

: 00:45:05

really important to look at it.

709

: 00:45:07

Just the history it's had in

being used in certain cultures.

710

: 00:45:11

And, um, you know, the, like we

said, like Shaga, the king of the

711

: 00:45:16

mushrooms and Rishi, the queen, like

longevity mushroom, and, you know,

712

: 00:45:20

they've used these for so many years.

713

: 00:45:21

And so I, well, I like to look at that

and see the benefits there and then try

714

: 00:45:26

it out for myself and see what works,

but, um, I, I kind of just want to.

715

: 00:45:31

Really quickly come back to this

point, which thank you for, for

716

: 00:45:34

diving so deep on to excite.

717

: 00:45:36

I love that.

718

: 00:45:37

But, um, so the, would you say then the

best method of consuming like medicinal

719

: 00:45:44

mushrooms in a supplement, would that

be, uh, specifically the fruiting body?

720

: 00:45:49

Um, and then not really having

the mycelium in there or a

721

: 00:45:53

mixture of the two as well.

722

: 00:45:55

Do we want that dual

extraction of alcohol?

723

: 00:45:58

like a water extraction.

724

: 00:46:00

Um, yeah.

725

: 00:46:01

What, what's like the top level that

we could get here for the average, uh,

726

: 00:46:08

you know, consumer, it's the, it's the

mushroom or the fruiting body, which

727

: 00:46:14

should occupy, uh, you know, the, the

main focus, uh, of the consumption.

728

: 00:46:21

And the reason for that is, and you

eloquently, eloquently described, you

729

: 00:46:26

know, the term evidence based medicine.

730

: 00:46:29

Um, So when we say evidence based

medicine, everybody thinks, oh, there's

731

: 00:46:32

got to be a research study to back it up.

732

: 00:46:34

But that isn't the correct definition

of evidence based medicine.

733

: 00:46:37

Evidence based medicine

relies on tradition.

734

: 00:46:41

So you're guided by what

your peers did in the past.

735

: 00:46:45

Um, and then you're guided

by your clinical practice.

736

: 00:46:49

So that you're playing

it out in real time.

737

: 00:46:51

Does it work?

738

: 00:46:51

Doesn't it work under what conditions,

you know, is it optimal or not optimal?

739

: 00:46:56

And then when the research is

being done, you're being guided

740

: 00:47:00

by the research, which guides the

future direction of that tradition.

741

: 00:47:04

And then you embody that research.

742

: 00:47:06

If we wait.

743

: 00:47:07

You know, you can do a

little bit of research.

744

: 00:47:08

It takes 15 years for it to get into

the conventional medical system.

745

: 00:47:12

So there's got to be this active

kind of interaction between the

746

: 00:47:16

practice of it and the research of it.

747

: 00:47:18

So that's why, you know,

people like me are important.

748

: 00:47:21

You know, I'm not just a commentator

or, you know, like a company,

749

: 00:47:26

you know, kind of representative.

750

: 00:47:27

I'm a, I'm a practicing, you

know, health care professional.

751

: 00:47:30

So I do both.

752

: 00:47:32

So, um, the fruiting body is where all of

the tradition is and the fruiting bodies

753

: 00:47:37

give the complexity, um, that allows us to

access the traditional knowledge so that

754

: 00:47:44

we don't need to rely always on a clinical

trial because we won't have the clinical

755

: 00:47:48

trials because they haven't all been done.

756

: 00:47:49

So if you want to get the, the,

um, you know, the male health

757

: 00:47:54

benefits from cordyceps, we don't

have a clinical trial for that.

758

: 00:47:57

So if you're purely going on the

evidence, you would never use cordyceps.

759

: 00:48:01

But all of the animal studies are really

quite profound about how cordyceps can

760

: 00:48:06

protect, um, you know, testicular tissue.

761

: 00:48:09

They can protect the, the, um,

testosterone and the, and the, the sperm

762

: 00:48:14

quality against external stressors.

763

: 00:48:18

And we've got the tradition around

cordyceps being used, um, as an

764

: 00:48:21

aphrodisiac, you know, which is kind

of like the old fashioned terminology

765

: 00:48:25

around, you know, the modern

understanding of testosterone, et cetera.

766

: 00:48:29

So the only way we can tap into

that traditional knowledge is by

767

: 00:48:33

use what they use traditionally.

768

: 00:48:34

And that's the fruiting body.

769

: 00:48:37

There are cases where if you've got

a pure mycelium product, which is

770

: 00:48:42

produced as a liquid culture, and

you've got a, and these, these products

771

: 00:48:46

are all focused on the beta glucans.

772

: 00:48:49

And that's a different kind of, it's

a subcategory of the whole mushroom.

773

: 00:48:53

So if you've got reishi, um,

beta glucans from mycelium, um,

774

: 00:49:00

it doesn't have any triterpenes.

775

: 00:49:02

Uh, it doesn't have any ergotheanine,

doesn't have any ergosterol.

776

: 00:49:06

So you're getting a very specific,

um, application and that really needs

777

: 00:49:12

then to be guided by the science.

778

: 00:49:13

So there needs to be clinical trials

to say, yeah, if you take this

779

: 00:49:16

product that's going to do this.

780

: 00:49:17

And it'll be particularly

relevant to your immune system.

781

: 00:49:21

Or if you have some other nefarious

thing going on, you know, like it

782

: 00:49:25

might be beneficial, but that has to

be guided by the research because that

783

: 00:49:28

wasn't how it was done traditionally.

784

: 00:49:30

Um, and then, you know, the mycelium

on grain shouldn't be seen as mycelium,

785

: 00:49:38

shouldn't be seen as a, as a, as a,

as a mushroom or a fungal product.

786

: 00:49:43

It should be seen as a

fungally fermented food.

787

: 00:49:45

And it's a totally different category.

788

: 00:49:47

And that needs to be

driven by its own evidence.

789

: 00:49:50

But currently that Mog for short mycelium

on grain or myceliated grain they

790

: 00:49:56

piggyback off all of the traditional

knowledge which comes from The the

791

: 00:50:00

mushroom or the fruiting body and the

chemistry of the two is totally different

792

: 00:50:04

as i've described You know, the nature

of the products are totally different.

793

: 00:50:07

So It's fraudulent to use that traditional

knowledge to back up the use of of a of

794

: 00:50:16

a supplement, which is totally different.

795

: 00:50:18

Um, so for the most part,

it's the fruiting body.

796

: 00:50:23

And then under quite specific conditions,

you know, the properly manufactured

797

: 00:50:28

submerged culture, um, beta glue cans.

798

: 00:50:30

But the way the labeling laws

are in the US, it can be quite

799

: 00:50:34

challenging for the consumer to

actually Arrive at that information.

800

: 00:50:39

Um, and you know, not all the

companies are very forthcoming,

801

: 00:50:42

um, at divulging that.

802

: 00:50:46

Yeah, that tends to be kind of an issue.

803

: 00:50:49

And does that help clarify it for you?

804

: 00:50:52

Yes.

805

: 00:50:52

Yeah.

806

: 00:50:52

No, absolutely.

807

: 00:50:53

Um, so I, and I, and I think I was

kind of, um, Path with really kind of

808

: 00:50:59

just focusing on on the fruiting body.

809

: 00:51:01

Um, primarily.

810

: 00:51:02

And yeah, so I'm going to continue,

uh, stick with the fruiting

811

: 00:51:07

body in that in that direction.

812

: 00:51:10

Um, and then I also wanted

to highlight a point that.

813

: 00:51:15

You brought up last time, which I thought

was really important to make here.

814

: 00:51:18

And that's about, um, you know, kind of

the stigma as well around like mushrooms

815

: 00:51:25

being grown in China and produced and

then, you know, consuming those and

816

: 00:51:30

kind of all the questions around it.

817

: 00:51:33

Is it being done properly?

818

: 00:51:34

This and that.

819

: 00:51:35

Um, and I know you were mentioning that.

820

: 00:51:37

Mushrooms and pretty much the

practice of medicinal mushrooms and

821

: 00:51:41

use of them Originated in china.

822

: 00:51:44

That is where it started and really, um,

you know by finding a good provider you're

823

: 00:51:50

literally helping helping to promote the

uh, preservation of that practice and that

824

: 00:51:56

stewardship of these medicinal mushrooms,

so um, yeah, like Just guide our listeners

825

: 00:52:02

through why it's okay to consume that.

826

: 00:52:05

Yeah.

827

: 00:52:05

You kind of summed it up.

828

: 00:52:06

I think, you know, when you mentioned

China in a conversation, particularly

829

: 00:52:10

in relation to a dietary supplement,

whether it's a nutrient or a herb or

830

: 00:52:15

a mushroom, you know, the, the red

flags get raised and, and rightly

831

: 00:52:20

so, cause you know, there's a lot

of, a lot of unethical practices.

832

: 00:52:24

But China is not unique in

those unethical practices.

833

: 00:52:27

I mean, they happen here in Australia.

834

: 00:52:29

They happen there where you are in the US.

835

: 00:52:32

I mean, there isn't any country that's

immune from, um, you know, unethical

836

: 00:52:37

behavior seems to be a, you know, a

human problem, you know, worldwide.

837

: 00:52:42

So you're right.

838

: 00:52:44

The China is the, you know, for,

for many of these mushrooms,

839

: 00:52:48

it's their ancestral homeland.

840

: 00:52:50

It's where they've been used as medicines.

841

: 00:52:53

And, um, you know, in some cases the

people that grow them have been doing

842

: 00:52:57

it, you know, as their livelihood, you

know, multi generationally and the, the

843

: 00:53:03

avid consumption of mushrooms now has

created the economics where, you know,

844

: 00:53:11

those, those people who lived quite poor

lives, you know, now have the opportunity

845

: 00:53:15

to prosper as a result of the big

demand, you know, that's being created.

846

: 00:53:20

So when you grow mushrooms, you know, in

the, in the wilds of China, like China

847

: 00:53:26

is a massive place, you know, it's,

it's not polluted across its entirety.

848

: 00:53:32

So, you know, if you're growing

herbs by the highway, um, you know,

849

: 00:53:37

they're going to be covered in cadmium

from the brake linings, you know,

850

: 00:53:41

and all of that sort of rubbish,

and that happens in India as well.

851

: 00:53:45

Um, so you, you have to be careful

with your sourcing, but, you know,

852

: 00:53:48

It's not just uniquely about mushrooms.

853

: 00:53:50

It happens with herbs as well.

854

: 00:53:51

So when you grow mushrooms, um, you

know, in those pristine environments

855

: 00:53:56

under organic conditions, and I would

never buy a product from China unless

856

: 00:54:00

it was organic, uh, you know, and

certified by a proper certifying body.

857

: 00:54:04

So all of, all of real

mushrooms products are organic.

858

: 00:54:07

Um, and there's, there's the ability

to interact with the grower and I've

859

: 00:54:15

had a long history in herbal medicine.

860

: 00:54:17

Um, a long history in practitioner

focused herbal medicine where

861

: 00:54:21

the growing relationships have

existed across the whole world.

862

: 00:54:25

You know, companies might say

they grow all of them, all

863

: 00:54:28

of their herbs in America.

864

: 00:54:30

But all companies might say they

grow all of their herbs in Australia.

865

: 00:54:33

It's not possible because, you

know, to some extent, certain herbs

866

: 00:54:36

need certain climatic conditions.

867

: 00:54:38

Um, and they only grow in

certain ecological niches.

868

: 00:54:42

So you really get forced to go wherever

you need to go in the world to get

869

: 00:54:45

the very best quality and qualities,

um, to do with the phytochemistry.

870

: 00:54:50

Uh, of the of the product.

871

: 00:54:52

Um, and then this issue of purity

and consistency, um, you know,

872

: 00:54:58

a kind of secondary measures.

873

: 00:55:00

So Real Mushrooms is very focused

on the chemistry of the mushroom,

874

: 00:55:05

um, delivering the best that we

know that that mushroom can offer.

875

: 00:55:10

So if you harvest turkey

tail from the wild.

876

: 00:55:13

For example, um, that's a hard thing to

do because, you know, it's pretty prolific

877

: 00:55:17

mushroom, but, you know, to satisfy the U.

878

: 00:55:20

S.

879

: 00:55:20

market, you know, you need a lot of

it, though, you know, there's a lot of,

880

: 00:55:24

it's a back breaking sort of exercise,

but that's, that's where it started,

881

: 00:55:28

and it was observed that the, the

variation that exists in the native,

882

: 00:55:32

in the wild populations of turkey tail

make it impossible to have a consistent,

883

: 00:55:38

um, profile of chemistry, And another

thing that gets talked about as being a

884

: 00:55:43

negative of this idea of standardization.

885

: 00:55:45

So standardization technically means

that the product that you make is

886

: 00:55:49

going to be the same all the time.

887

: 00:55:51

And if you if you describe a particular

quality around something you're

888

: 00:55:55

always going to meet that quality.

889

: 00:55:58

In the using a herbal example

standardization might be standardizing

890

: 00:56:02

for a particular molecule And then

the manufacturer can get a really high

891

: 00:56:07

quality herb so they don't need to use

as much to get that molecule or an un,

892

: 00:56:13

an unethical manufacturer could get a

really cheap herb, which has hardly any

893

: 00:56:18

of that substance in it, but they can

buy a lot of it really cheaply so they

894

: 00:56:22

can extract it and concentrate it and

just say, Hey, we've got the same amount

895

: 00:56:26

of that molecule as that other company.

896

: 00:56:28

But you miss all of the complex

chemistry that you've got.

897

: 00:56:31

So there are some weaknesses

in standardization that people

898

: 00:56:35

can kind of wiggle around.

899

: 00:56:37

Uh, but from a real mushrooms point

of view, um, working very closely

900

: 00:56:41

with growers, um, to develop strains

of mushroom, which deliver consistent

901

: 00:56:47

high efficacy, uh, means that you can

give the very best, you know, products.

902

: 00:56:51

So with turkey tail, That variety made it

impossible to have a consistent product.

903

: 00:56:56

So, uh, a certain amount of research

was done to say these varieties

904

: 00:57:00

give the right profiles of beta

glucans and triterpenes, et cetera.

905

: 00:57:05

Um, and some of the other

molecules that are there.

906

: 00:57:09

And then that strain can be bred

so that, you know, the whole

907

: 00:57:13

production has got similar genetics.

908

: 00:57:16

So then the products that you make are

going to be, um, you know, very similar.

909

: 00:57:20

Um, but I think it's a shame that, um,

you know, that China gets used as a wedge.

910

: 00:57:28

Um, you can make, you can grow a

good mushroom anywhere in the world.

911

: 00:57:32

Um, you know, if the conditions are

right, you've got the right substrate.

912

: 00:57:35

So if you want to grow reishi,

you need, you need wood.

913

: 00:57:39

Um, you can't grow it on brown rice

because you need wood because you need

914

: 00:57:42

the lignin, which provides the phenolics

that can then make the triterpene.

915

: 00:57:46

So you have to have a faith

and an understanding, uh, in

916

: 00:57:50

the tradition so that you grow

on, on the appropriate medium.

917

: 00:57:54

Um, you know, chaga can only come

from live trees, for example, you

918

: 00:57:58

know, it can't come from dead trees.

919

: 00:58:01

So you can grow a good

mushroom anywhere in the world.

920

: 00:58:05

Um, but it comes down to scale

and economics and companies thrive

921

: 00:58:11

because they make profits and

you can't shy away from that.

922

: 00:58:15

So, um, over the course of the lifespan

of a company, the locations and the

923

: 00:58:20

manufacturing processes and all of the

things that you do to make the company

924

: 00:58:24

successful, you know, are all kind of,

um, you know, balanced around that.

925

: 00:58:29

So, um, the, the.

926

: 00:58:32

Real mushrooms focus on

China ticks all the boxes.

927

: 00:58:35

You know, you can, you can honor the

tradition, you know, you can, you can

928

: 00:58:38

get the, you know, the economics, right.

929

: 00:58:41

And, uh, you can consistently deliver the

high volume that's necessary to support

930

: 00:58:46

the voracious appetite at the moment, you

know, across the whole mushroom space.

931

: 00:58:51

Cause it's not just about supplements.

932

: 00:58:52

That's the supplements are going

into foods and beverages and, you

933

: 00:58:56

know, the demand is just huge.

934

: 00:58:58

And keeping faith with the quality.

935

: 00:59:01

When the production numbers start to,

you know, skyrocket, when you're talking

936

: 00:59:06

about, you know, thousands of, you

know, kilograms, tons of this stuff,

937

: 00:59:10

um, it becomes really quite challenging.

938

: 00:59:15

Yeah.

939

: 00:59:15

And I think that it's

exactly what you said.

940

: 00:59:19

This is where third party

testings and certifications, you

941

: 00:59:24

know, like certified organic or

whatever the certification may be.

942

: 00:59:29

That's why it's important, you know,

like regardless of where you're growing

943

: 00:59:32

your, or, or, you know, getting your

ingredients from, uh, which, like

944

: 00:59:36

you said, we want to get it from

the place where it's specialized

945

: 00:59:40

and grows the best in that area.

946

: 00:59:42

Um, but yeah, you could third party test

to make sure that you're getting what, you

947

: 00:59:47

know, is being said is in that product.

948

: 00:59:49

And, uh, yeah, it's a good

way to go about it, I think.

949

: 00:59:52

Yeah.

950

: 00:59:52

And those test results are available,

you know, on the, on the Real

951

: 00:59:56

Mushrooms website for the products.

952

: 00:59:58

I love that.

953

: 00:59:59

You want to know the beta glucan levels.

954

: 01:00:01

If it's ratio, you want to know the,

the triterpene levels and then you

955

: 01:00:05

want to know that it's free of heavy

metals and it's free of pesticides and

956

: 01:00:09

aflatoxins and all of that sort of stuff.

957

: 01:00:13

Yeah.

958

: 01:00:14

Um, I know we're, uh, we're, we're getting

close to an hour here, which is wild.

959

: 01:00:19

The time for me has flown.

960

: 01:00:20

Yeah.

961

: 01:00:23

One of my, uh, one of my old

teachers, you say time, uh, Time's

962

: 01:00:28

fun when you're having flies.

963

: 01:00:29

Um, anyways, yeah, that's my, it's

my bad dad joke here, I guess.

964

: 01:00:35

But, uh, anyways, um, I wanted to

ask you a couple last questions here.

965

: 01:00:39

Um, first off, as I mentioned last

time with you, uh, you know, one of my.

966

: 01:00:44

Like North stars has

basically been gut health.

967

: 01:00:48

Um, cause it's obviously something

I've been dealing with as a kid

968

: 01:00:52

and then, and uh, you know, really

navigate my way and optimizing it.

969

: 01:00:55

So what would be the best mushroom for gut

health if we were going to focus on that?

970

: 01:01:03

Well, any mushroom will

be good for gut health.

971

: 01:01:06

So, uh, all of the mushrooms

have got Beta glucans.

972

: 01:01:10

If you're consuming whole mushrooms,

so if you're eating them in your

973

: 01:01:12

diet, or if you're using the real

mushrooms one to one extract powders

974

: 01:01:17

or capsules, then you're getting the

insoluble beta glucans and chitin,

975

: 01:01:21

as well as the soluble beta glucans.

976

: 01:01:24

And those molecules act as

prebiotics, so they're, they're

977

: 01:01:28

food for the beneficial bacteria.

978

: 01:01:32

So that helps to maintain a healthy bowel

flora, and a healthy bowel flora flora.

979

: 01:01:37

It's kind of like ground zero when

you're thinking about healthy gut, um.

980

: 01:01:43

Even the humble button mushroom, um, has

got soluble beta glucans in it, that when

981

: 01:01:48

you eat enough of them, um, they have

anti inflammatory effects in the gut.

982

: 01:01:53

So the soluble beta glucans block

particular inflammatory receptors and

983

: 01:01:58

down regulate inflammation, particularly

in people that have got a tendency

984

: 01:02:01

towards inflammatory bowel diseases.

985

: 01:02:04

So the bowel flora is kind of like primary

and all the mushrooms will do that.

986

: 01:02:09

So the more mushrooms we eat,

the healthier bowel flora we get.

987

: 01:02:12

And then a healthier bowel flora

means that we're then going to have,

988

: 01:02:16

um, you know, less inflammation.

989

: 01:02:19

We'll have less leaky gut.

990

: 01:02:20

Uh, et cetera, but then the action of

the beta glucans on the immune tissue,

991

: 01:02:26

um, So you, beta glucans, uh, you know,

the immune cells have got projections

992

: 01:02:33

that come through the lining of the gut.

993

: 01:02:35

So they're kind of

sampling that environment.

994

: 01:02:37

So beta glucans acting at those

receptors help to calm, um, the immune

995

: 01:02:42

system down and help to educate it.

996

: 01:02:44

So that immune layer which is

just underneath the epithelial

997

: 01:02:49

layer becomes a bit more happy and

harmonious and less inflammatory.

998

: 01:02:53

So, um, mushrooms play a very

important role as a foundation, um, in

999

: 01:02:59

maintaining an optimal gut environment.

: 1000

01:03:01,605 --> 01:03:07,015

But if I was to just pick, say two

mushrooms, um, lion's mane has got,

: 1001

01:03:07,885 --> 01:03:09,075

you know, the consciousness of.

: 1002

01:03:10,265 --> 01:03:11,415

cognitive function around it.

: 1003

01:03:11,455 --> 01:03:15,975

Like the mass kind of thinking is like,

it's the great mushroom for cognition.

: 1004

01:03:15,975 --> 01:03:17,905

And it is, I'm not disagreeing with that.

: 1005

01:03:18,955 --> 01:03:23,905

Uh, traditionally one of its primary

uses was for gastrointestinal health.

: 1006

01:03:24,325 --> 01:03:28,205

Particularly chronic, chronic things

in the gut that would have been

: 1007

01:03:28,205 --> 01:03:31,155

linked to chronic inflammation,

chronic inflammatory bowel diseases.

: 1008

01:03:32,625 --> 01:03:35,635

And lion's mane was used in

quite high doses as a food.

: 1009

01:03:35,685 --> 01:03:38,685

So anywhere north of like,

you know, five grams.

: 1010

01:03:39,225 --> 01:03:40,515

So if you sat down and had.

: 1011

01:03:40,850 --> 01:03:45,040

Like a whole head of, of lion's mane,

you know, you, you might get like a

: 1012

01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,850

hundred grams, three or four ounces,

which might translate into like

: 1013

01:03:48,850 --> 01:03:51,000

10 or 15 grams of dried mushroom.

: 1014

01:03:51,330 --> 01:03:56,960

So that's number one, um, uh, in terms

of gut health and then tremella, um,

: 1015

01:03:57,150 --> 01:04:01,410

on a regular basis, uh, is also really

significant for gut health as well.

: 1016

01:04:01,410 --> 01:04:06,015

It's got a different type of,

um, polysaccharide arrangement.

: 1017

01:04:06,015 --> 01:04:09,415

The beta glucans are in a

slightly different configuration.

: 1018

01:04:09,455 --> 01:04:13,965

So you get good synergy between

the lion's mane and the tremella.

: 1019

01:04:13,995 --> 01:04:16,085

So they work kind of really well together.

: 1020

01:04:16,665 --> 01:04:19,195

And Pure Mushrooms has got both of those.

: 1021

01:04:19,455 --> 01:04:23,420

Um, and Tramella is a

little bit mucilaginous.

: 1022

01:04:23,450 --> 01:04:28,400

So if you put half a teaspoon into a hot

drink and stirred it up, um, then, you

: 1023

01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:29,980

know, it makes it a little bit thicker.

: 1024

01:04:30,029 --> 01:04:33,040

So you get a bit more mouth

feel, um, in the, in the drink.

: 1025

01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:35,380

Oh, that's awesome.

: 1026

01:04:35,410 --> 01:04:37,620

Um, yeah, I mean, I

already love Lion's Mane.

: 1027

01:04:37,620 --> 01:04:39,740

I think I told you last time

that that is my favorite.

: 1028

01:04:40,785 --> 01:04:41,705

But just no mushroom.

: 1029

01:04:41,855 --> 01:04:42,985

It also tastes good.

: 1030

01:04:42,995 --> 01:04:44,065

So it is nice to eat.

: 1031

01:04:44,415 --> 01:04:46,154

Um, I didn't know that about tremella.

: 1032

01:04:46,154 --> 01:04:52,415

And, and, um, I'm sure you could actually

put that into, uh, I know there's like

: 1033

01:04:52,565 --> 01:04:56,035

hot cocoa mixes and stuff that they

do with like mushrooms, but maybe that

: 1034

01:04:56,165 --> 01:04:58,045

would help to give it that thicker.

: 1035

01:04:58,330 --> 01:04:58,840

Yeah, it does.

: 1036

01:04:58,910 --> 01:05:01,930

And then when you get near the bottom,

you just need a spoon to stir it

: 1037

01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:03,550

because some of that stuff settles out.

: 1038

01:05:03,940 --> 01:05:07,840

So the last few mouthfuls will always

be just that little bit thicker.

: 1039

01:05:08,190 --> 01:05:11,620

But I add tremella and lion's mane

to all of the foods that I cook.

: 1040

01:05:11,650 --> 01:05:15,800

So if I'm frying just button mushrooms,

I'll add some lion's mane powder on there

: 1041

01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,260

just to kind of up the therapeutic ante.

: 1042

01:05:18,580 --> 01:05:20,790

Um, you can do the same with tremella.

: 1043

01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:25,029

Um, I add lion's mane and

tremella to soups and casseroles.

: 1044

01:05:25,835 --> 01:05:31,485

You can add any baking that you do, um,

that can be added to any of those things.

: 1045

01:05:31,485 --> 01:05:36,295

They're both very versatile, bland,

neutral flavors, which are very compatible

: 1046

01:05:36,295 --> 01:05:37,625

with just about any sort of taste.

: 1047

01:05:38,115 --> 01:05:43,125

I've made some great stews with, um,

with tremella, um, you know, like things

: 1048

01:05:43,125 --> 01:05:44,585

that you might put on the slow cooker.

: 1049

01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:48,880

Um, you know, like chicken with a bunch

of fresh mushrooms and vegetables and

: 1050

01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,740

a few spoons of tremella, you get,

you get a much thicker, syrupy kind

: 1051

01:05:53,740 --> 01:05:56,580

of, um, soup, uh, as a result of that.

: 1052

01:05:56,580 --> 01:05:57,190

It's delicious.

: 1053

01:05:58,650 --> 01:05:59,310

That's awesome.

: 1054

01:05:59,390 --> 01:05:59,810

Okay.

: 1055

01:05:59,850 --> 01:06:01,820

I definitely have to give that a try.

: 1056

01:06:01,850 --> 01:06:02,340

Um,

: 1057

01:06:04,910 --> 01:06:05,430

Yeah, I know.

: 1058

01:06:05,430 --> 01:06:07,750

You need to, you need to come out

with the mushroom recipe book.

: 1059

01:06:08,460 --> 01:06:13,560

Um, no, and, and actually cooking

with mushrooms is something, um, I've

: 1060

01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:14,870

been wanting to incorporate more.

: 1061

01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:19,685

They tend to be a little on the pricier

side when you get into, you know, Some

: 1062

01:06:19,685 --> 01:06:25,695

of these finer mushrooms, I would say,

really tasty and, and, um, obviously

: 1063

01:06:25,695 --> 01:06:28,875

they have a lot of benefit, but last

question I do have here for you, Lee,

: 1064

01:06:28,925 --> 01:06:33,585

was what is, if you had to like, get

rid of every mushroom, you can only

: 1065

01:06:33,585 --> 01:06:36,705

have one for the rest of your life,

and that was the one you had to stick

: 1066

01:06:36,705 --> 01:06:38,925

with, uh, which one would you choose?

: 1067

01:06:40,775 --> 01:06:42,885

Oh, can I ask some qualifying questions?

: 1068

01:06:43,165 --> 01:06:44,695

Um, yeah, absolutely.

: 1069

01:06:44,935 --> 01:06:48,205

Like, am I on a desert island and

all I've got is the fish I catch

: 1070

01:06:48,205 --> 01:06:49,555

and the coconuts off the trees?

: 1071

01:06:49,615 --> 01:06:49,654

So.

: 1072

01:06:50,255 --> 01:06:52,475

You know, my living in my

current environment and

: 1073

01:06:52,475 --> 01:06:53,565

I've just got one mushroom.

: 1074

01:06:55,845 --> 01:06:56,135

Okay.

: 1075

01:06:56,135 --> 01:06:56,785

Well, you know what?

: 1076

01:06:56,805 --> 01:06:59,645

I'll give you, I'll give you the

option to go with both routes.

: 1077

01:06:59,645 --> 01:07:03,555

You can choose two different dimensions

here and two mushrooms on that.

: 1078

01:07:03,605 --> 01:07:08,395

In the modern world, I'd go with

reishi because reishi has got things

: 1079

01:07:08,395 --> 01:07:10,555

in it that no other mushroom has.

: 1080

01:07:10,745 --> 01:07:13,565

It's not called the mushroom

of immortality for nothing.

: 1081

01:07:13,915 --> 01:07:15,135

And I would, I take it.

: 1082

01:07:15,165 --> 01:07:16,525

I've been doing it every day.

: 1083

01:07:17,095 --> 01:07:18,775

since early: 2020

: 1084

01:07:18,865 --> 01:07:21,404

Uh, it's turning my white hair.

: 1085

01:07:21,455 --> 01:07:25,235

My used to have just pure white hair, but

it's, Reishi's turning it black again.

: 1086

01:07:25,235 --> 01:07:29,835

I've got like about 15 percent black

hairs now as a result of doing the Reishi.

: 1087

01:07:29,835 --> 01:07:35,605

So there's, there's lots of things that

Reishi does, uh, in terms of resolving

: 1088

01:07:35,875 --> 01:07:39,275

all sorts of processes to do with

aging in the body, which is why it's

: 1089

01:07:39,275 --> 01:07:40,775

called the mushroom of immortality.

: 1090

01:07:40,775 --> 01:07:42,005

You don't really live forever.

: 1091

01:07:42,315 --> 01:07:44,404

You just, you have a healthier life.

: 1092

01:07:44,404 --> 01:07:45,365

You have a healthier.

: 1093

01:07:46,085 --> 01:07:48,515

You have a longer health span

is what I'm trying to say.

: 1094

01:07:48,904 --> 01:07:52,305

So I want to, I don't want

to live to an advanced age.

: 1095

01:07:52,305 --> 01:07:56,315

I mean, you know, 90 or 95 would be

nice, but I want to be really active

: 1096

01:07:56,315 --> 01:07:59,255

and healthy through that entire span.

: 1097

01:07:59,255 --> 01:08:01,835

I don't want to spend the last

20 years in a wheelchair or.

: 1098

01:08:02,885 --> 01:08:07,195

in a hospital bed, you know, like in a

vegetative state, I want to be optimized

: 1099

01:08:07,255 --> 01:08:09,325

so that I live life to the fullest.

: 1100

01:08:09,815 --> 01:08:12,675

So I think Reishi kind of fits that bill.

: 1101

01:08:12,675 --> 01:08:15,285

And I think, uh, you know,

for most people, that would

: 1102

01:08:15,285 --> 01:08:16,774

be my recommendation as well.

: 1103

01:08:16,774 --> 01:08:18,885

But in the real world,

we can't just have one.

: 1104

01:08:19,189 --> 01:08:21,710

But, um, you know, that, that,

that would be the one that I

: 1105

01:08:21,710 --> 01:08:22,979

would get people focused on.

: 1106

01:08:23,270 --> 01:08:26,920

And Real Mushrooms has got the best

reishi, I think, on the market.

: 1107

01:08:26,930 --> 01:08:30,090

Without, without me doing any

kind of marketing spin, I've

: 1108

01:08:30,090 --> 01:08:30,970

looked at all the products.

: 1109

01:08:31,260 --> 01:08:34,670

Um, you know, uh, it's got

the highest beta glucans, it's

: 1110

01:08:34,670 --> 01:08:35,680

got the highest triterpenes.

: 1111

01:08:37,020 --> 01:08:41,140

And if people want to, you know,

if I pique their interest on a real

: 1112

01:08:41,170 --> 01:08:45,979

mushrooms brand, if you use my name,

Lee L double E, um, as the coupon

: 1113

01:08:45,979 --> 01:08:50,460

code, uh, you can get an additional 20

percent off, off your first purchase.

: 1114

01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,440

Or if you're a regular purchase, you

get 20 percent off your next purchase.

: 1115

01:08:53,500 --> 01:08:56,700

So go and buy a bunch

of either one of those.

: 1116

01:08:56,740 --> 01:08:59,569

But if you're looking for somewhere

to start, you know, maybe.

: 1117

01:09:02,145 --> 01:09:08,215

Yeah, I think Rishi is like one of the

best ones to go with and also, uh, truly

: 1118

01:09:08,225 --> 01:09:10,035

thank you for providing that code as well.

: 1119

01:09:10,035 --> 01:09:14,175

Because I, I like to get our listeners

a little something here on the show.

: 1120

01:09:14,194 --> 01:09:16,745

Uh, you know, says like a

thank you for, for tuning in.

: 1121

01:09:16,745 --> 01:09:18,495

, but yeah, I really appreciate that Lee.

: 1122

01:09:18,495 --> 01:09:21,765

It's, uh, it's really helpful

for, yeah, it's helpful for all

: 1123

01:09:21,765 --> 01:09:25,505

the listeners and, um, as well

too, Lee, I want to give you the.

: 1124

01:09:26,229 --> 01:09:30,180

The floor here to just also mention

where people can find you, um, anything

: 1125

01:09:30,180 --> 01:09:33,490

else going on at Real Mushrooms

that people should know about, um,

: 1126

01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:37,740

and then also just any last, uh,

parting words with the listeners,

: 1127

01:09:37,740 --> 01:09:43,609

any, uh, 65 years of sage advice that

you can give is more than welcome.

: 1128

01:09:44,050 --> 01:09:48,680

Yeah, um, I think I'd like to

say that, uh, Real Mushrooms

: 1129

01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:49,720

is not just about humans.

: 1130

01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,610

Mushrooms play a really important

role in pet health as well.

: 1131

01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:58,750

So mushrooms has got a real mushrooms

has got a really good veterinary line.

: 1132

01:09:58,790 --> 01:10:01,480

So, you know, there's

some great products there.

: 1133

01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,500

So it's not just about, you know,

you, it's about, you know, looking

: 1134

01:10:04,510 --> 01:10:06,460

after your animals as well.

: 1135

01:10:07,010 --> 01:10:09,350

And if you want to.

: 1136

01:10:09,580 --> 01:10:10,480

Connect with me.

: 1137

01:10:10,510 --> 01:10:12,450

Uh, you can do that through the website.

: 1138

01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:13,890

Lee at real mushrooms.

: 1139

01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:14,430

com.

: 1140

01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:17,140

Um, um, you know, shoot me an email.

: 1141

01:10:18,090 --> 01:10:23,850

And I think my parting shot, like

my 65 years of kind of wisdom

: 1142

01:10:23,930 --> 01:10:29,275

distilled into this mushroom

category is Um, start consuming

: 1143

01:10:29,285 --> 01:10:31,385

mushrooms regularly and never stop.

: 1144

01:10:31,875 --> 01:10:33,455

Like, it's not a fad.

: 1145

01:10:33,825 --> 01:10:37,835

Uh, it's, it's not something that you

just want to do for a little bit of time.

: 1146

01:10:37,865 --> 01:10:39,155

You want to do it for

the rest of your life.

: 1147

01:10:39,725 --> 01:10:43,235

It'd be silly to think that you

could do all of your exercise

: 1148

01:10:43,305 --> 01:10:44,845

that you need to do in a year.

: 1149

01:10:45,684 --> 01:10:48,184

in one month of that year and then

have the rest of the year off.

: 1150

01:10:48,184 --> 01:10:50,915

If you want to build your muscles

up, you can't go to the gym just

: 1151

01:10:51,225 --> 01:10:55,855

once, once, um, one week out of a

month, you've got to go every week.

: 1152

01:10:55,855 --> 01:11:00,425

So if you want to exercise your mushroom

muscles, uh, which mean that you'll live

: 1153

01:11:00,425 --> 01:11:04,645

longer, you'll have a healthier lifespan,

you'll have less chance of developing

: 1154

01:11:04,915 --> 01:11:09,635

dementia and Alzheimer's and Parkinson's,

you'll have less cardiovascular disease.

: 1155

01:11:09,684 --> 01:11:12,900

Then, uh, Start taking mushrooms

regularly and don't stop.

: 1156

01:11:14,890 --> 01:11:15,370

I love it.

: 1157

01:11:15,430 --> 01:11:18,210

Yeah, I'm 100 percent on board.

: 1158

01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,650

Um, I've been, I've been a huge

proponent of functional mushrooms,

: 1159

01:11:21,650 --> 01:11:23,720

medicinal mushrooms for a long time.

: 1160

01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:26,400

And so you're just, you're

completely mirroring that.

: 1161

01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,500

And I would hammer that home as well.

: 1162

01:11:28,700 --> 01:11:32,135

Um, Take your mushrooms

and don't, and don't stop.

: 1163

01:11:32,965 --> 01:11:33,365

Yeah.

: 1164

01:11:33,434 --> 01:11:36,945

Um, well, Hey, Lily, thank you

so much for coming on today.

: 1165

01:11:36,955 --> 01:11:39,045

It's been an absolute pleasure.

: 1166

01:11:39,065 --> 01:11:43,015

Um, I wouldn't be surprised if I see

you back on here and I would love

: 1167

01:11:43,035 --> 01:11:44,195

to keep in touch with you as well.

: 1168

01:11:44,805 --> 01:11:45,745

Thanks very much, Evan.

: 1169

01:11:45,745 --> 01:11:47,115

I've, I've really enjoyed it.

: 1170

01:11:47,115 --> 01:11:49,175

I hope your listeners, you

know, get a lot out of it.

: 1171

01:11:49,175 --> 01:11:53,325

There's, there's a lot of, a lot of gems

and pearls in what we talked about today.

: 1172

01:11:53,405 --> 01:11:54,525

So I hope off.

: 1173

01:11:55,180 --> 01:11:57,790

You and I together have helped,

you know, propel people, you

: 1174

01:11:57,790 --> 01:11:59,250

know, into their mushroom journey.

: 1175

01:11:59,330 --> 01:12:01,150

So yeah, thank you very much.

: 1176

01:12:02,140 --> 01:12:03,240

Yeah, no, absolutely.

: 1177

01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:04,580

I, I, I hope the same.

: 1178

01:12:04,580 --> 01:12:07,520

And, and like I said, I wasn't

joking, like there are going to be

: 1179

01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,650

legit notes for myself off of this.

: 1180

01:12:09,650 --> 01:12:12,330

So, um, Dom appreciative,

uh, for that Lee.

: 1181

01:12:12,765 --> 01:12:17,725

And, uh, to all the listeners, you

know, just, uh, if you found any benefit

: 1182

01:12:17,725 --> 01:12:21,215

in this, uh, reach out to either of

us and, and feel free to connect.

: 1183

01:12:21,245 --> 01:12:23,475

Um, yeah, and that's

going to do for today.

: 1184

01:12:23,475 --> 01:12:25,285

So thank you all very much.

: 1185

01:12:25,305 --> 01:12:28,125

Uh, connect to your elements, do

everything with good intentions, eat your

: 1186

01:12:28,125 --> 01:12:30,265

mushrooms, and thank you very much, Lee.

: 1187

01:12:30,835 --> 01:12:31,665

Thank you, Evan.

: 1188

01:12:31,785 --> 01:12:32,345

Bye everyone.