171. Beneath the Surface: Dr. Amani's Journey from The Cave

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Hey, how's it going everybody.

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Welcome to the elemental Evan podcast.

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This is your host, Evan Roberts.

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And on this podcast, I break down

health topics from a holistic

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and simplified perspective.

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However, on today's episode, we are

going to shift slightly because we are

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joined by a truly astounding guest.

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Dr.

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Amani Bollore.

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Sure.

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Now there is a ton to say about Dr.

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Amani, but honestly, I'm just going

to let the episode do the talking

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and give you a quick idea of who Dr.

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Amani is.

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So for starters, she's a pediatrician,

an activist as well as an author,

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but more importantly, she was the

very first woman to hold the position

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of hospital director in Syria.

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And more importantly, it wasn't just

any old hospital, but rather it was

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the hospital referred to as the cave.

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Now it's referred to as the cave,

because it is literally underground.

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They had to do this because it was

just too dangerous to have a hospital

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above ground due to a lot of the

bombings that were taking place

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during the time that she was in Syria.

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Now Dr.

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Ramani has both a documentary that

is on Hulu and it was produced by it.

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National geographic titled the cave.

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If you haven't already gone and watched

the documentary, I highly recommend

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that you do it is a great way to get

a brief insight into what was going

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on at the time and covers a bit more

about what the cave was and all of the

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events that kind of took place there.

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If you want a deeper look into Dr.

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Amani story, as well as the cave,

which I highly recommend, then you

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can also read her book, the cave, uh,

secret underground hospital and one

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woman's story of survival in Syria.

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This book goes much, much deeper

into all of the fine details of the

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events that took place while Dr.

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Amani was out there.

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It is pretty heart-wrenching,

I'm not going to lie.

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There's some really difficult parts to

read in there but it is so important for

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us to stay up to date and educated on

these events that are occurring globally.

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So for this episode, I wanted to

touch on a few quick points that

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were things that kind of a rose for

me during both the actual filming of

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this podcast episode, but also in the

research I was doing leading up to

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the episode and that was first off.

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If you haven't practiced gratitude today,

then please go ahead and do so, because I

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promise you life can be so much worse and

so much more difficult than it already is.

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So please, if you haven't already, please

take a moment to find some gratitude,

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even for the small things in life.

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Maybe it's just a little

bit of food on the table.

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Maybe it's the roof over your head, your

friends, your family, your loved ones.

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Uh, maybe it's just being able to

go outside and enjoy some sunshine.

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It can be very simple things, but please

practice some gratitude today because I

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promise you there are so many things in

our life that we can be grateful for.

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Number two is going to be two.

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Educate ourselves.

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And to extend a hand out to our neighbors.

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Right.

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And I mean, literally our neighbors next

door, as well as our neighbors globally.

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Right.

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Because we are a very connected world,

uh, being that we have the ability to

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communicate with each other so easily.

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And, you know, we can see all the

different events that are going on,

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and it really is just a great practice

for us to extend a hand out to our

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neighbors and, you know, really offer.

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Offer, even if it's just time or help,

uh, doing very little things, maybe it's

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even just being nice to our neighbors.

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Right.

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Uh, showing a smile,

making them feel welcomed.

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It's the little things that we can do to

really help each other out and make this

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world a bit more peaceful and enjoyable.

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Remember, Gandhi did say be

the change that you wish to

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see, and it is so true because.

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At the end of the day, the

only thing that we can control

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is ourselves and our actions.

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So please, if you haven't already show

some compassion for others around you,

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and if you can help out others across

the globe, either with your time or

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your money or whatever, it may be.

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Then please go ahead and do so as well.

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And last, but not least if you

know a medical professional,

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please show them some love as well,

because it is a very difficult job.

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And, you know, medical professionals

truly do the best that they can.

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And, you know, they work super hard

and long hours and they're doing.

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Really some amazing work to try

to keep us all healthy and safe.

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So please, if you know a

medical professional, go ahead,

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shoot them a text message.

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Give them a call, give them a hug and

just let them know that you appreciate

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all of the work that they're doing.

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And without further ado, let's just go

ahead and jump into today's episode,

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which is once again, going to be a little

bit different than the normal episodes

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that we have on here, but nonetheless,

it's going to be a really impactful one.

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So I hope you all enjoy and have some

major takeaways from today's episode.

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Let's go ahead and get into it.

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Let's welcome Dr.

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Amani.

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Hi, Dr.

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Amani.

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Thank you very much for

joining me on today's episode.

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How are you doing today?

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Hi.

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Thank you for having me.

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I'm doing well.

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Thank you.

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Awesome, Dr.

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Amani.

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Well, hey, I like to, uh, Usually, just

dive right into the episode and I think

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for today's episode, it would probably

be a good idea to provide the listeners

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with a little bit of a background on,

uh, both the situation in Syria as

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well as, uh, your role as the first

woman, uh, to be Hospital director of

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a hospital known as the cave in Syria.

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Um, if you wouldn't mind providing

a little bit of background just

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to catch everybody up to speed

on that, that would be amazing.

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Well, yeah, the the Syrian revolution

started in: 2000

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like a peaceful protest in the street.

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Like many, many Syrian people

start this demanding human rights,

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demanding democracy and dignity.

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Uh, in Syria, I think.

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People don't know we have a dictator

and he's now the president for

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like, uh, now 42, uh, uh, 24 years.

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And his father was before

him for like 30 years.

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So, uh, you know, we have no elections,

no democracy, and the people are really

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oppressed and we can't talk a word

about freedom, about human rights.

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So, yeah, just saying people

wanted to ask about their rights.

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That's why it started in 2011.

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I was in, uh, I was studying medicine.

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I was in my fifth year

at the medical school.

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And yeah, immediately after the protest

started, the dictator, the president,

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Bashar al Assad and his regime

started to shoot people, to kill them.

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And then they started to, to bomb,

uh, targeted the cities everywhere,

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uh, the cities, which, uh, has the

protest and to, to bomb, to, to kill

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everyone, to destroy everything.

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Uh, the Syrian regime with

its allies, Russia and Iran.

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So, yeah, they started to do this

using all the types of weapons.

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I was just a medical student and I

wanted to do something to help my people.

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I saw the innocent people were being

killed, the children, the women.

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So I decided, uh, I graduated

in: 2012

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I was dreaming to study pediatrics

and just, I, I started studying

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pediatrics for one month, two months.

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You know, the bombing and everything

start to be in my city in my town.

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So I decided just to stay

there to help the people there.

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Then the Syrian regime besieged us,

besieged the cities and the town.

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So we were like half a million people

in a place in countryside of Damascus.

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They besieged us and they prevent

at the beginning food and medicine,

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and then they prevent everything.

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No one can go.

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In or out, and that lasted

for more than six years.

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Of course, we didn't expect

this, but it was very hard time.

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Yeah, yeah, it's, uh, definitely a

difficult, uh, difficult reality for

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sure, and, you know, watching a lot of

it on the documentary, uh, of yours,

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The Cave on Hulu was, uh, yeah, it's a

hard thing to watch, uh, let alone to

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obviously live through, so, um, yeah,

I know there's a lot to unpack there

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for sure, but one thing I wanted to

start off with was, uh, Did you, did

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you want to be the hospital director or

was that something that was just kind

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of thrown upon you by everybody else?

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Well, let me first tell

you about the cave.

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Uh, the Syrian regime started to

target hospitals from the beginning,

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so they destroyed many hospitals.

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near us.

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That's why we moved to work underground

in the basements, you know, anywhere,

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uh, hiding places or somewhere.

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So we moved underground.

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We found a basement.

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It was just two rooms at the beginning.

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Then we expanded, you know,

year after year, we make it

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a big hospital underground.

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And we also, we met people.

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tunnels to connect the hospital

with other places from underground,

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because it was hard to move on the

ground because of the heavy bombing.

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Uh, I started working in this hospital

since, you know, started in: 2012

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I know the hospital.

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I know what we need.

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I know.

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I mean, I know.

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Maybe I have plans and, you know,

opinion about how we can develop it.

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What exactly we need.

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And you know, I was a doctor

like other doctors who started

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to manage this hospital.

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So I believe that I can do something

to improve this hospital, develop

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it, make everything better.

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You know, I have plans and

I believe that It's fine.

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I mean, there's nothing can,

you know, prevent me off being

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the manager of this hospital.

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So there were like, we, we made like

their elections, but small elections.

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We were like 12 or 13 doctors and

we choose the manager between us.

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So, uh, one of the doctors say

that I believe that you can do it.

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I'm Annie.

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So why you don't, uh, nominate yourself.

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And I said, Yeah, I can.

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I think I can do it.

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And and I did.

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And yeah, my colleagues chose me to be

the manager for the beginning six months.

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Then they wanted me to stay for

more six months and then for a year.

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So I stayed like a manager for two years

before we forced to leave the area.

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Yeah.

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And on that note, what kind of

difficulties were, were you experiencing

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during that time as the director of the

hospitals, especially being, um, you know,

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a woman in a traditionally man's role?

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Like what, uh, what kind of comfort, like,

yeah, confrontations from people did you

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receive or just difficulties in general?

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Did you experience?

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Well, everything was, you know, difficult.

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Everything was a challenge, uh,

starting from being a manager of a

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hospital in a war zone, besieged area.

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There's no resources, not enough food.

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No medicine, no medical supplies.

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Everything was prevented.

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We have like these tunnels to to

connect us with Damascus city.

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So we tried many times, you know, to

smuggle some food, some medicine, some

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medical devices sometimes, but still,

you know, lack of everything, lack

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of the, for example, diagnosis tools.

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So the patients and

everyone were suffering.

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to have the resources at the beginning.

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Second, I can talk about the protecting

the hospital and the health workers

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because we were a target for the bombing

for the Syrian regime and Russia.

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And although we were

underground, but it wasn't safe.

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I mean, and in 2015, they

targeted our hospital.

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It was underground, and they

targeted us that the muscle.

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We're underground and explode.

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Explode.

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I mean, I was sitting with my

colleagues, three off them.

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And when the muscles that I just

went to the emergency room and

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then the bump happened and it

killed three off my colleagues.

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So, and it destroyed part of the hospital,

so it wasn't safe working underground.

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This was also a challenge to protect

this hospital, to protect, you know,

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the ambulance, to protect everyone.

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Also, that was a challenge.

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And besides all these challenges, I mean,

I was a woman, so many of my community men

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criticized me just because I was a woman.

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I was just starting to manage the

hospital and they start, you know, to

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say, like, don't we have enough men

to bring this woman to be a manager?

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They remember the young man.

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He was, he was educated.

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He was my colleague and my friends

before I start to be a manager.

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And he said, uh, we have

no problem with you.

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Uh, you are our colleague, but we

don't want a woman to be our manager.

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So, you know, that was really frustrating

for me to hear this from a colleague of

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mine, from a young man, from educated man.

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So that was really, you know,

I mean, it's bad to hear this,

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but it was like, it pushed me to

approve that we can do something.

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I have to do something in this position,

because if I fail, they will say

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this about all the women in the area.

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I was the first woman to

manage like a hospital in a war

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zone in these circumstances.

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So I decided.

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That I have to succeed and I

tried, you know, do my best to

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make this hospital continue It was

the central hospital in the area.

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And yeah, thank God it was it was good.

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It stayed for Last time for the

last time before we left After many

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hospitals, underground hospitals

were destroyed by bombing and our

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hospital stayed and we had good, you

know, medical supply and medicine.

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It wasn't enough, of course, but it was

good, you know, to help many people.

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And it was protected because

we make this tunnels.

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We had this place.

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Plan to to protect it.

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We have, you know, the

available resources.

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We put, like, many, uh, backs off

sounds on the hospital on the place

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above the hospital to protect it.

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And that was, you know, I can

say partially it was good.

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So yeah, we stayed.

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We worked to the last minute.

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And after this, I remember like many of

the men who criticized me, many of them

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came to me and they said, You were good.

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You did a great job.

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I was very happy to do this.

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I can say like it.

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It was a winning for many

women, not only for me.

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So that was very happy moment

to hear this from them.

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Yeah, yeah, and I applaud you for sure,

because it's not an easy task for anyone

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to do and, uh, I'm, I, I believe, you

know, from at least from what I've

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seen and, and from, you know, reading

your book, like you, you definitely put

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your heart and soul into it and, uh,

that's, that's all anyone can ask for.

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So, um, yeah, you definitely

did, did the best that you

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absolutely could with what you had.

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And, um, on that note as well, the reason.

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You were evacuated out from the hospital

was, was it because the Russians had

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said that they were going to like

bomb specifically this, uh, the cave?

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Was that the reason for, for leaving?

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They really started bombing the whole

area where, as I said, like half a million

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people in the area with so many hospitals.

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They started this like military campaign.

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It was very, very heavy bombing.

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Every second, every minute, they

tried to bomb the hospital many times.

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The missiles were, you know, falling

around us and next to us many times.

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And they started, you know, to come

close and close to our hospital.

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So, you know, everyone, when they

get closer to them, just flee.

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And all these people and all, you

know, in the area we went, we stayed

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only in, like, two small towns.

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Everyone all the people who were

fleeing, you know, from the Syrian

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regime and from the Russian.

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It was like, I can say it was a

Russian campaign, actually, the Russian

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military campaign and the leader who

make the negotiation with the people.

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He was a Russian leader.

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So he said, as I heard from my

colleague, one of my colleagues

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were in this negotiation and he

said, just he said, you can leave.

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We allow you to leave

or we kill all of you.

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And you know, really, they killed

many people at this campaign.

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It lasted for one and a half month

and they killed many, many people.

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And I remember just a day before we leave

the hospital, there were a big massacre

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when they told the people in the area

that there's some food or someone selling

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food on the main street in my town.

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And people were sitting underground,

hiding without food for a few days.

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So many people go there.

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They believe this and they think

that they will get food, you

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know, for their Children and their

families and the war blend targeted

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them and killed many, many people.

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I remember many people.

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They were just in the ground, the

ground in the hospital on the corridors

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bleeding and we were just watching.

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I mean, we can't help one tooth, but

not, you know, they were they were

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just in the ground, but not, you

know, they were just in the ground.

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Nearly, maybe 100, 200, like, I can't

remember, but yeah, that was horrible.

311

: 00:18:12

You know, we wanted to

stay in our country.

312

: 00:18:14

We don't want to leave.

313

: 00:18:15

I mean, no one like to leave

their countries, but we, you know,

314

: 00:18:19

after all this, we had to leave.

315

: 00:18:22

So they brought a buses for us and

they send us to the north of Syria.

316

: 00:18:27

This area is out of the

Syrian regime control.

317

: 00:18:32

And you mentioned the, you know,

this massacre that took place.

318

: 00:18:37

Um, not to mention the countless

other bombings as well as the use

319

: 00:18:42

of chemical, chemical warfare.

320

: 00:18:44

Um, you know, how, how do you even assess,

All of these people, when they start

321

: 00:18:51

flooding into the hospital, like what,

what's the first process that you're going

322

: 00:18:55

through when, especially with the chemical

warfare, where you don't even know what's

323

: 00:19:00

wrong with these people that are coming

in, like, what are, what are the first

324

: 00:19:03

steps that you take to try to assess the

situation and to get a hold on things?

325

: 00:19:09

Well, the first chemical attack

I witnessed, it was in: 2010

326

: 00:19:14

13.

327

: 00:19:14

And we were just, you

know, started the hospital.

328

: 00:19:17

It was a small hospital at the beginning.

329

: 00:19:19

We were some doctors like few

doctors, some volunteers and many of

330

: 00:19:23

the medical staff were volunteers.

331

: 00:19:25

Actually, many, many doctors

left the area before the siege.

332

: 00:19:30

When the bombing started,

they start to flee.

333

: 00:19:32

So yeah, we were few doctors.

334

: 00:19:34

I mean, I was just graduated.

335

: 00:19:36

I graduated in 2012.

336

: 00:19:38

I had no experience.

337

: 00:19:40

Um, and you know, I remember that night

when I was sleeping during the night.

338

: 00:19:46

It's nearly 1am or 2am when I started

not to hear this noise and I went to the

339

: 00:19:52

hospital after when I started my book

writing about this because it was the

340

: 00:19:56

worst thing I ever, you know, witnessed.

341

: 00:19:59

And yeah, I went to the hospital to see

like many, many people on the ground.

342

: 00:20:06

Inside the hospital and on the

ground out of the hospital, like

343

: 00:20:09

many people and many of them were

just dead and others were moving.

344

: 00:20:15

They just, you know, they don't,

I mean, don't speak, don't cry,

345

: 00:20:19

just suffocating and moving many,

many children among these people.

346

: 00:20:24

And, you know, when people

suffocating, it's emergency case.

347

: 00:20:28

So all of them were emergencies.

348

: 00:20:30

They need very, you know, care.

349

: 00:20:32

Fast help.

350

: 00:20:33

And we were just a few doctors.

351

: 00:20:35

I remember just trying to pass

between these people to go inside

352

: 00:20:39

the hospital to know what to do.

353

: 00:20:41

And I remember to see my

colleague, other internal doctor.

354

: 00:20:45

And I asked her, what do

you do for these people?

355

: 00:20:48

I mean, how will you do?

356

: 00:20:49

And she said, just we give them atropine.

357

: 00:20:52

And, you know, we just we didn't

know what happened for them.

358

: 00:20:55

We didn't know.

359

: 00:20:56

It was like chemical.

360

: 00:20:57

We said, like, maybe the in her

chemical, but what kind of chemical,

361

: 00:21:01

you know, material we didn't know.

362

: 00:21:03

So we knew later it was sorry,

but it was like a shock for us.

363

: 00:21:09

And I started just to do what I can do.

364

: 00:21:12

I just sit between these guys.

365

: 00:21:14

people in somewhere.

366

: 00:21:16

I just to sit there and start to

give a tropine to, you know, to

367

: 00:21:20

just suck the, you know, the form

bitten from their mouth and nose.

368

: 00:21:26

It was, you know, horrible.

369

: 00:21:28

We had no plan to deal with this.

370

: 00:21:30

We, I mean, I have no

training to deal with this.

371

: 00:21:33

Other doctors also.

372

: 00:21:36

The doctors who are specialists older

than me, they don't know what is this,

373

: 00:21:42

I mean, what kind of chemicals is this,

how we should to deal with it, but we

374

: 00:21:48

just started to work, you know, as a

doctor to, you know, to save the lives.

375

: 00:21:53

I mean, it was horrible.

376

: 00:21:54

Many people died that night.

377

: 00:21:56

Like they said, like the numbers

is of course not accurate number.

378

: 00:22:01

They said 1500 people died and

many of them were Children.

379

: 00:22:05

I remember, you know, working

with the Children that night they

380

: 00:22:09

were suffocating in front of me.

381

: 00:22:11

If I help a child, the other

child immediately died, you know,

382

: 00:22:14

have only like a few minutes.

383

: 00:22:16

to help someone who's suffocating.

384

: 00:22:19

So it was very, very hard.

385

: 00:22:21

And I still, you know, feel guilty

because I didn't help everyone.

386

: 00:22:26

I mean, yeah, I said, why I chose

this child, not the other child.

387

: 00:22:30

I mean, yeah, it's hard to remember also.

388

: 00:22:33

That's why writing this book,

it was very, very hard choice.

389

: 00:22:37

And I think a lot before, I mean, I

said, do I, I have to tell this story.

390

: 00:22:44

Remember everything with the details

all the massacres, which would have

391

: 00:22:48

been before this chemical attack.

392

: 00:22:50

And after this many attacks happened, they

use the chemical weapons again and again.

393

: 00:22:56

So, yeah, it was hard, you know,

choice to me that I won't do it again.

394

: 00:23:01

to tell this story.

395

: 00:23:02

But I felt that it's a responsibility

to tell about the victim's story.

396

: 00:23:08

Tell about them.

397

: 00:23:09

They were innocent.

398

: 00:23:10

They deserve better life.

399

: 00:23:12

These Children, they have dreams.

400

: 00:23:14

They were hungry.

401

: 00:23:15

They were afraid, and they just,

you know, died in this way.

402

: 00:23:19

So I I think that they

deserve to tell their stories.

403

: 00:23:23

Yeah, and the chemical.

404

: 00:23:25

Sorry, I kind of missed the chemical

you mentioned that was used.

405

: 00:23:28

It But it specifically targets the

lungs and and causes suffocation.

406

: 00:23:33

Is that typically what

that that chemical does?

407

: 00:23:36

Yeah, it's setting as people inhale it and

it's a fucked it Yeah, it's suffocating

408

: 00:23:41

them and it targets also the nerves.

409

: 00:23:44

So it makes you know people like

to Paralyzed, so they were just

410

: 00:23:48

on the ground with, you know, cold

bodies, dark lips and with the form.

411

: 00:23:53

So we didn't know what is this.

412

: 00:23:54

Some of them were like moving.

413

: 00:23:57

I'm not sure like it was like a scissors

or something, but they were just moving

414

: 00:24:02

like this and they were in conscience.

415

: 00:24:05

So that was very hard to deal with it.

416

: 00:24:09

And when, when you were in that situation,

what kind of mindset did you have to

417

: 00:24:16

get yourself into to not just freeze in

shock of What's going on, but rather to

418

: 00:24:23

take action and make sure that you're

doing whatever that you, you possibly

419

: 00:24:28

can, like, how do you, what, what, yeah,

what kind of a mindset did you have to

420

: 00:24:31

get yourself into, uh, because I know

so many people in a, in a situation,

421

: 00:24:36

you know, not even nearly half as bad

as that, uh, they tend to freeze up,

422

: 00:24:41

um, how did you get yourself to, to jump

to action and, and move and do things?

423

: 00:24:47

Exactly.

424

: 00:24:47

It was like very hard.

425

: 00:24:49

I went first when I see everyone on

the ground, like I thought I just I

426

: 00:24:54

was sleeping because I just, you know,

woke up and went to the hospital.

427

: 00:24:58

I mean, is it a dream or

nightmare or something?

428

: 00:25:02

And then I look for everyone.

429

: 00:25:05

It's real.

430

: 00:25:05

It happened.

431

: 00:25:06

And I see one of my colleagues also

just was standing and talking and

432

: 00:25:12

couldn't working and do anything.

433

: 00:25:14

I looked at the Children next

to me and I see this child.

434

: 00:25:19

I remember it wins.

435

: 00:25:20

two girls next to each other.

436

: 00:25:22

They were suffocating and

I looked exactly to them.

437

: 00:25:25

I tried to focus on them and I

said, Oh, they, they need help.

438

: 00:25:28

You know, I have a job to do

and they sit next to them,

439

: 00:25:31

started to working, helping them.

440

: 00:25:33

And I started just to focus on my

job, not to think about anything else.

441

: 00:25:38

I mean, it's very hard, but it's possible.

442

: 00:25:41

And I started working with these kids.

443

: 00:25:43

And then, you know, to the, another And

other kids next to me and other kids and

444

: 00:25:48

some people bring kids to me because they,

they know that I was studying pediatrics.

445

: 00:25:52

So they said, this is a pediatrician.

446

: 00:25:54

She can help.

447

: 00:25:55

I tried, you know, just to focus, you

know, in just small area next to me.

448

: 00:26:01

And to try to help everyone I didn't cry

and I just focused very much on what I'm

449

: 00:26:08

I have to do What we have like what the

medicine that we have we had no enough

450

: 00:26:13

oxygen and that was very hard to deal with

That's why many people died that night So

451

: 00:26:18

yeah, I just try to be focusing and this

way, like the whole night, you know, best.

452

: 00:26:25

And, uh, I remember like, I just, when,

when I really woke up and start to think

453

: 00:26:32

about this, maybe after three days.

454

: 00:26:35

But now I can think more

and more about this.

455

: 00:26:38

I can't blame myself because

I didn't help everyone.

456

: 00:26:41

I think about, you know,

these, uh, these feelings.

457

: 00:26:45

It's, you know, very hard and

I'm really happy because I didn't

458

: 00:26:48

think about this when I was there.

459

: 00:26:50

So I could, you know, help or

do something to help people.

460

: 00:26:54

Yeah.

461

: 00:26:55

Yeah.

462

: 00:26:55

And, and You know, definitely.

463

: 00:26:57

I mean, easier said than done, but

of course you can't blame yourself.

464

: 00:27:01

You did the absolute best that you could,

you know, and, and it's easy to look

465

: 00:27:05

back and be critical on ourselves, but,

uh, of course you did absolutely the

466

: 00:27:10

best that you could with what you had.

467

: 00:27:12

Um, in terms of the aftermath

of these events, did you.

468

: 00:27:18

Did you have a process where when you

finally were able to go home from the

469

: 00:27:22

hospital, uh, you know, did you have a

process where you would try to de stress

470

: 00:27:28

or stop thinking of the events of the day?

471

: 00:27:33

Like, was there any practices that

you were using to try to just kind of,

472

: 00:27:38

yeah, decompress and unload and not

internalize all of the events of the day?

473

: 00:27:45

There were no time to do

anything for yourself there.

474

: 00:27:48

You know, after this massacre, it was

at night and in the morning, the Syrian

475

: 00:27:54

regime targeted a hospital next to us.

476

: 00:27:57

They bombed it and they kill some

people and they affected the hospital.

477

: 00:28:01

So they brought the

casualties to our hospital.

478

: 00:28:03

I remember like three or four people.

479

: 00:28:05

They were, you know,

bleeding and have injuries.

480

: 00:28:08

So we have, you know, we

just work day after night.

481

: 00:28:12

I mean, we, I didn't remember just Because

that we were underground so many, many

482

: 00:28:17

times we don't know it's a day or a

night, you know, it was, you know, hard

483

: 00:28:22

to think about ourselves or how it's hard

to think about other people feelings.

484

: 00:28:27

And this is also something

sometimes I blame myself about it.

485

: 00:28:30

I remember that woman who asked me

in the midst of this massacre, the

486

: 00:28:34

chemical massacre, she asked me to

go with her to see her Children.

487

: 00:28:38

And she said she had to see three

children and they, they were, you know,

488

: 00:28:41

they died in this chemical attack.

489

: 00:28:44

So just she wants some

support from me or something.

490

: 00:28:48

And she said they died, come

to see them because she know

491

: 00:28:50

that I, I knew her children.

492

: 00:28:52

I couldn't go with her.

493

: 00:28:55

I, you know, I have job to do.

494

: 00:28:57

So there's something.

495

: 00:28:58

Yeah.

496

: 00:28:58

I mean, more important to do to save the

other lives, people who are still alive.

497

: 00:29:03

So yeah, I also blame myself how

I didn't care about her feelings.

498

: 00:29:08

A mother just lost her three children.

499

: 00:29:11

Can you imagine this?

500

: 00:29:12

So yeah, of course I didn't think

about myself and I didn't have time.

501

: 00:29:17

It's just working.

502

: 00:29:18

And I don't remember, I

don't go a lot to my home.

503

: 00:29:21

I mean, I spent most of

my time in the hospital.

504

: 00:29:24

We have massacres.

505

: 00:29:25

Sometimes we have three

or four massacres a day.

506

: 00:29:29

I mean, many casualties

working all the time.

507

: 00:29:31

And just when I go home, I just sleep.

508

: 00:29:34

And in the very early morning, I

have to go to the hospital, but

509

: 00:29:37

sometimes they bomb during the night.

510

: 00:29:39

So we had to go to the hospital.

511

: 00:29:41

Every time I hear sound, I go

to the hospital or I hear the

512

: 00:29:44

war blend sound very loud.

513

: 00:29:46

I go to the hospital.

514

: 00:29:47

So this is was our life and we

didn't expect it will last, you know,

515

: 00:29:51

for year after year after year for

six years with no action from the

516

: 00:29:56

international community, no action

from, you know, the countries.

517

: 00:30:01

Which talk all the time about

the human rights, about the

518

: 00:30:04

children rights, women rights.

519

: 00:30:06

I mean, there were children that

were dying without food, without

520

: 00:30:10

enough food, without, uh, with

fear, I mean, with, uh, bombing.

521

: 00:30:16

So, yeah, that lasted

for, like, till: 2018

522

: 00:30:21

Wow.

523

: 00:30:22

Yeah, and So, I mean, obviously,

you're on high alert the entire time

524

: 00:30:29

you're out there, um, now being, uh,

you know, no longer at the hospital.

525

: 00:30:37

You know, how has the process of, of kind

of processing these events been for you?

526

: 00:30:41

Has it, um, you know, have you,

have you seeked out any type of

527

: 00:30:45

help or anything to, uh, try and

process these events or anything?

528

: 00:30:49

Um, like, how, yeah, how has

that whole process been for you?

529

: 00:30:52

Um, in, in terms of, you

know, Going through everything

530

: 00:30:55

that you've been through.

531

: 00:30:57

Well, I had a very hard time after

we left, and I just stayed at home.

532

: 00:31:02

And we were in northwest of Syria,

and also there were bombing there.

533

: 00:31:06

It's out of the Syrian regime control.

534

: 00:31:09

So I couldn't work there.

535

: 00:31:11

I went to a hospital there and tried

to start working, but I couldn't.

536

: 00:31:15

I was just, you know, have

these memories and I was shocked

537

: 00:31:19

with everything happened.

538

: 00:31:20

I start to think about everything.

539

: 00:31:22

So it was very hard time.

540

: 00:31:24

And then I moved to

Turkey and I got married.

541

: 00:31:27

I stayed at home for a few months.

542

: 00:31:29

They're thinking about

everything and crying.

543

: 00:31:32

And, you know, then I believe that,

you know, the only way to to, To go

544

: 00:31:37

through this to pass this is to keep

working because people still need

545

: 00:31:43

help and people still suffering.

546

: 00:31:45

Many, many Children who are there

with me, they just were displaced

547

: 00:31:50

to the northwest of Syria and

they lived in a camps in camps.

548

: 00:31:54

I mean, with very bad situation,

you know, living in a tent.

549

: 00:31:59

Especially like in winter with

the snow with, you know, the wind

550

: 00:32:04

sometimes take that the tent away.

551

: 00:32:07

They were hungry.

552

: 00:32:08

They have, you know,

millions of people in camps.

553

: 00:32:11

So you can imagine there's not enough

food and not enough, you know, no

554

: 00:32:15

access for health care services.

555

: 00:32:18

So I joined the, the, the organization,

uh, which was supporting the Cape

556

: 00:32:23

hospital, Syrian American medical society.

557

: 00:32:27

And I'm working now for them.

558

: 00:32:29

And they, you know, I believe

they're doing a great job supporting

559

: 00:32:32

everyone with other organizations.

560

: 00:32:35

They help.

561

: 00:32:35

That's not enough, of course,

not enough, but it helps.

562

: 00:32:38

I mean, we have like medical

facilities, we're supporting them.

563

: 00:32:42

We have a program for medical

education, for example, training

564

: 00:32:47

midwives and the nurses.

565

: 00:32:50

This is also great, supporting women.

566

: 00:32:52

And they're supporting hospitals there.

567

: 00:32:56

I'm supporting cancer patients.

568

: 00:32:57

They have the center of conservation.

569

: 00:32:59

So this is the only way, you know,

to heal is to keep helping, you

570

: 00:33:04

know, as, uh, we can, I mean, our,

you know, as possible as we can.

571

: 00:33:12

Yeah.

572

: 00:33:12

And you, you mentioned, I know

in the, in the documentary at one

573

: 00:33:16

point, uh, you mentioned how just

everyone being so malnourished,

574

: 00:33:20

especially a lot of the children.

575

: 00:33:22

It was very difficult to even give them

medications because for one, if you're

576

: 00:33:27

not eating enough food, you know, that's

going to be the first thing you need to

577

: 00:33:33

start doing before you can even really

start taking medic medications and

578

: 00:33:36

allow them to have the proper effect.

579

: 00:33:38

Um, so how, how were people getting

food, uh, into their houses?

580

: 00:33:43

Like what, because obviously

there's restrictions, people can't.

581

: 00:33:46

Transport food into the country.

582

: 00:33:48

So what was like the primary

way of, of people, uh, getting

583

: 00:33:51

food for their families?

584

: 00:33:53

Yeah, when the siege started,

it was very hard time.

585

: 00:33:57

It started in 2013.

586

: 00:33:59

And when winter come, I can remember

we really had nothing to eat.

587

: 00:34:03

It's, you know, some were

in countryside of Damascus.

588

: 00:34:08

So people plant many things used to plant.

589

: 00:34:10

I mean, but They start

to eat everything we had.

590

: 00:34:15

And then I remember very, very hard

time for a few months in the winter.

591

: 00:34:19

And I remember some people died because

of hunger and they were, you know, we

592

: 00:34:24

can't, you can see everyone very, very

thin people, the children, all of them

593

: 00:34:29

like were underweight and that was very

hard time when summer come, people start

594

: 00:34:35

to plant some, you know, the green plants.

595

: 00:34:38

It wasn't, you know, enough.

596

: 00:34:40

It didn't make them full,

but it helps a little.

597

: 00:34:44

And then after this, we

make this tunnel to connect.

598

: 00:34:48

It's, it was a secret tunnels to

connect the, the place with the,

599

: 00:34:52

with Damascus, but it was, you know,

hard, like, you know, a tunnel,

600

: 00:34:55

you can just move some food, not

a food for half a million people.

601

: 00:34:59

So they tried to smuggle some food

and then the Syrian regime know

602

: 00:35:03

about these tunnels and bombed it and

destroy it and try to make others.

603

: 00:35:07

And there were like sometimes from

the Points, which, you know, besieged

604

: 00:35:12

the area they they send smuggle.

605

: 00:35:15

I mean, with these leaders, I

mean, you know, they call them

606

: 00:35:19

the war leaders who try, you know,

to make a trade at this time.

607

: 00:35:24

So they try to sell a, uh, a barley.

608

: 00:35:27

It's a, you know, what, what is barley

is something, you know, it's not very

609

: 00:35:31

good to eat, but we were depend on

this barley to eat for a few years.

610

: 00:35:37

I remember this.

611

: 00:35:38

That's why the children

were like very underweight.

612

: 00:35:41

They were malnourished.

613

: 00:35:43

There were no, of course, no fruits,

no vegetables, but we depend on

614

: 00:35:48

what's what we can plant there.

615

: 00:35:50

Some green vegetables and with it

for this barley, sometimes smuggle

616

: 00:35:56

some something from the tunnel.

617

: 00:35:57

Sometimes we had nothing, but

people try to use everything we had.

618

: 00:36:03

And I remember we have For example,

we had no sugar, we had no salt.

619

: 00:36:08

And you know how bad our life

was with no salt and no sugar?

620

: 00:36:12

Very bad, I mean.

621

: 00:36:13

And people start to use salt from

different resources, use other things.

622

: 00:36:18

And one night they used something, it's

supposed to be salt, and it, uh, a family,

623

: 00:36:25

uh, Uh, bought this from someone and they

bought it on their food and they ate it

624

: 00:36:30

and they then they suffocated and the

three Children died from this family.

625

: 00:36:36

We found out after this, it

wasn't the sodium chloride.

626

: 00:36:41

It was ammonium chloride and

they ate it and they just died.

627

: 00:36:45

You know, many times we bought

things and we didn't know what it is.

628

: 00:36:50

I remember we just taste these things.

629

: 00:36:52

It's like sugar, but it's not real sugar.

630

: 00:36:55

I don't know.

631

: 00:36:56

Actually, maybe some something like

aspartame or something like this.

632

: 00:37:00

And we ate this and children ate this.

633

: 00:37:03

It's unhealthy, you know, but we tried.

634

: 00:37:05

I mean, when you are hungry, really

hungry, you need something to eat.

635

: 00:37:09

That's why we tried many, many things.

636

: 00:37:12

Yeah, absolutely.

637

: 00:37:14

Um, I also noticed that I feel like

the community of doctors and medical

638

: 00:37:22

professionals that you had in the cave.

639

: 00:37:24

Um, it looked like you all really formed

a strong community with 1 another.

640

: 00:37:29

And, uh, it seemed like it really

helped, um, for all of you to get

641

: 00:37:34

through these difficult times.

642

: 00:37:35

Can you talk a little

bit about the role that?

643

: 00:37:37

Um, the community of you and the

other medical professionals in

644

: 00:37:40

the cave, just kind of what role

and impact that had for you.

645

: 00:37:44

Yes, we were like really a big

family since we start working.

646

: 00:37:48

I know, I mean, I know everyone in

the hospital, the staff were like

647

: 00:37:53

100 or more in the Cape Hospital.

648

: 00:37:56

I know everyone.

649

: 00:37:58

I know their families.

650

: 00:37:59

I know what I mean.

651

: 00:38:00

They have what their problems.

652

: 00:38:02

I know everything.

653

: 00:38:03

They're, you know, siblings, the people

who have after when someone of them,

654

: 00:38:09

for example, lost when, you know, of

their families member in the bombing.

655

: 00:38:14

We all, you know, be together to pay

Try, you know, to take them past this.

656

: 00:38:20

It was, you know, very hard time.

657

: 00:38:23

We cook together.

658

: 00:38:24

Sometimes when we have, you know,

some food, we try to cook together.

659

: 00:38:27

And you can see this in the documentary.

660

: 00:38:30

The nurse was cooking for us.

661

: 00:38:33

You know, we try to have.

662

: 00:38:35

You know, some happy moments, happy times.

663

: 00:38:38

I mean, of this.

664

: 00:38:39

I mean, you know, we're human

beings and life continues.

665

: 00:38:43

It's years.

666

: 00:38:44

It's not a day or or a month.

667

: 00:38:47

It's years.

668

: 00:38:47

So we try to have this happy moments,

try to support each other to talk to

669

: 00:38:52

each other when when we're really feel,

you know, everyone has this moment.

670

: 00:38:58

When you, you feel that you can't

continue, I mean, you can't go on.

671

: 00:39:04

And I had these moments many times.

672

: 00:39:06

So we started not to talk with each

other, to say this, to support each other.

673

: 00:39:10

And that's really, you know, that,

that really helped us to just to

674

: 00:39:15

pass through this, to go through

this and, you know, to survive.

675

: 00:39:19

Yeah, I think community is such an

important, plays such an important

676

: 00:39:24

role in everyday life as well.

677

: 00:39:27

Um, but especially when you're in, um,

you know, a very difficult time, it can

678

: 00:39:32

be, uh, kind of the make or break for you.

679

: 00:39:35

You know, it can really be something to,

to, to lean on, you know, and in times

680

: 00:39:40

where maybe you're not as strong, uh,

people can lean on to you or sorry, you

681

: 00:39:44

can lean on to them and and vice versa.

682

: 00:39:46

So when, uh, others aren't strong,

they can lean on to you and.

683

: 00:39:49

Um, as well, I saw that you played

what seemed like a very large role

684

: 00:39:53

in the lives of many of the children

that came into, uh, the cave as well.

685

: 00:39:57

I saw in the documentary, for example,

uh, there is a young girl that you were

686

: 00:40:02

speaking with and, um, you know, just.

687

: 00:40:05

Trying to give her the best advice

that you possibly could at that time.

688

: 00:40:08

And, and really just being,

um, a role model and a parent,

689

: 00:40:12

parental figure to her.

690

: 00:40:13

Um, so I'm sure there is also

a lot of that as well, right?

691

: 00:40:17

Well, yeah, a lot, you know, and we

have, when we have some time, I try

692

: 00:40:21

just to speak with the children.

693

: 00:40:23

You know, the hardest thing is seeing

that the fear in their eyes, when you,

694

: 00:40:29

I was working with the children and

it's really hard and always when When

695

: 00:40:33

I look at their eyes and I see this

fear, they didn't know what happened.

696

: 00:40:38

They have nothing to do with war and with

bombing, and they don't know why they

697

: 00:40:42

have to be hungry, why they didn't have

something to eat because, you know, they

698

: 00:40:47

had this before, and now there's no food.

699

: 00:40:49

They don't understand.

700

: 00:40:51

I mean, they understand

nothing of what's happening.

701

: 00:40:55

So I tried just, you know, and

that doesn't happen a lot because

702

: 00:40:58

I didn't have time for everyone.

703

: 00:41:00

I remember, for example, Like sometimes

100 child with, of course, their parents

704

: 00:41:06

or someone came to my clinic a day.

705

: 00:41:11

It's a lot.

706

: 00:41:12

I can't see everyone and deal

with everyone with my, you

707

: 00:41:15

know, limited experience.

708

: 00:41:17

So yeah, when I, I have time to

try just to talk to them, support

709

: 00:41:21

them, try to bring them hope,

tell them that they can survive.

710

: 00:41:25

Everything will change.

711

: 00:41:27

It's okay.

712

: 00:41:27

Just, you know, sometime and it will pass.

713

: 00:41:30

You're gonna forget about this.

714

: 00:41:31

You're gonna go to school.

715

: 00:41:33

You will be happy.

716

: 00:41:34

You will have your friends,

have your favorite foods.

717

: 00:41:37

And, you know, that helps children.

718

: 00:41:40

They believe us.

719

: 00:41:41

And especially they believe the

doctor, you know, for a child.

720

: 00:41:45

The doctor is, you know, someone when I

say something for them, they trust me.

721

: 00:41:51

And yeah, I was happy to support them.

722

: 00:41:55

Yeah, yeah, they were absolutely

lucky to have you for sure.

723

: 00:41:58

And Uh, it just makes me wonder how, you

know, how difficult of a time they're

724

: 00:42:04

going to have in the future, you know,

trying to process these events that

725

: 00:42:08

they've been through and, and, um, I'm

sure there's going to be, you know,

726

: 00:42:12

um, a lot of work to do there as well.

727

: 00:42:14

Uh, one thing I was wondering

was, was there anything

728

: 00:42:18

that didn't get captured in.

729

: 00:42:22

The documentary or even in your book

as well, um that you feel should have

730

: 00:42:27

been highlighted more or Maybe just

wasn't included at all Well, it's a

731

: 00:42:33

documentary actually at the beginning.

732

: 00:42:35

I wasn't happy with the documentary

because I thought it's 90 minutes I

733

: 00:42:39

mean for everyone it's not short, but

I thought it's very short comparing

734

: 00:42:43

with what we witnessed What we see.

735

: 00:42:46

I wanted when I went out, I wanted the

people to see everything happening,

736

: 00:42:51

everything, every suffering for

every human being for every child.

737

: 00:42:54

And that was very hard to me.

738

: 00:42:56

I mean, when I watched the documentary,

I said, Where's this child?

739

: 00:43:00

Why?

740

: 00:43:00

I mean, there's no blood

in the documentary.

741

: 00:43:02

No heart.

742

: 00:43:03

scene.

743

: 00:43:04

I said, they said they don't want

to hurt people who are watching.

744

: 00:43:07

But I said, but we saw

this and this happened.

745

: 00:43:10

The child was hurt.

746

: 00:43:11

Did you know?

747

: 00:43:13

So yeah, the heart for me.

748

: 00:43:14

And that's why I decided to write

the book to, to tell the whole truth.

749

: 00:43:19

You know, it's impossible

to tell everything.

750

: 00:43:22

Everything.

751

: 00:43:23

But I tried with this book to

tell the many, many stories.

752

: 00:43:27

Many things happen.

753

: 00:43:29

I think it's, you know, it can

tell the people to give a good

754

: 00:43:33

idea about what's happening there.

755

: 00:43:36

The truth, especially now the Syrian

regime in Russia and everyone seeing

756

: 00:43:41

their, you know, propaganda and talking

their lies about what's happened.

757

: 00:43:44

And they called us terrorists.

758

: 00:43:46

And I wanted to tell the truth.

759

: 00:43:48

I wanted to tell the stories of the

victims, and I'm happy I was able to

760

: 00:43:52

tell this story through, through the

book with my co-author, uh, Rania.

761

: 00:43:56

I'm thankful for her to write this

story in this, uh, really great way.

762

: 00:44:03

And yeah, I wish that everyone

read this book to know about Syria.

763

: 00:44:08

I wanted to write more and more about

the suffering of the Syrian people now.

764

: 00:44:14

Now, especially in in camps in whole

Syria, you know, also also in the

765

: 00:44:19

Syrian regime area and northwest,

northeast, everywhere is, you know,

766

: 00:44:23

Syria now different parts with different,

you know, people who control it.

767

: 00:44:28

Many camps in Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon.

768

: 00:44:31

I tried to give an idea about

the situation of these people.

769

: 00:44:36

And the refugees also in every

country about their suffering.

770

: 00:44:40

But I wish people who read the

book to, you know, research more

771

: 00:44:44

and try to know more about these

people because I'm sure that you

772

: 00:44:49

can help everyone who read the book.

773

: 00:44:51

You can do something to help

people who are suffering.

774

: 00:44:55

Yeah.

775

: 00:44:55

Uh, well, on that, on that note, what,

uh, what are some things that people

776

: 00:44:59

can be doing right now to support

and help, uh, you know, the Syrian

777

: 00:45:05

refugees, but also just in general, uh,

Syria or refugees of other countries?

778

: 00:45:11

Thank you for this question.

779

: 00:45:12

And this is really my goal of this book.

780

: 00:45:15

I mean, know about Syria, read this

book, and know about these people

781

: 00:45:20

suffering, the children suffering.

782

: 00:45:22

When you sit with your children,

they are safe and warm.

783

: 00:45:25

Just think a little about other children.

784

: 00:45:28

Speak up for Syria.

785

: 00:45:29

Tell everyone about these stories.

786

: 00:45:32

With the politicians with the

parliament members with everyone,

787

: 00:45:35

we can make pressure on the

politicians, especially I'm in the U.

788

: 00:45:39

S.

789

: 00:45:40

In Europe, and they can make a

pressure on the Syrian regime, at

790

: 00:45:44

least to release the detainees.

791

: 00:45:46

The people who are being tortured every

day for now, maybe for 13 years or more.

792

: 00:45:52

And, you know, also before the revolution,

many, many political detainees.

793

: 00:45:57

They do nothing but Talk a little

about freedom or they demand

794

: 00:46:01

democracy for our country, so they

are dying in the prison every day.

795

: 00:46:06

You can donate also for the organizations

who are supporting people inside or

796

: 00:46:12

outside Syria, supporting refugees.

797

: 00:46:14

You can donate for this organization.

798

: 00:46:16

They support, try to support

everything and they need a lot,

799

: 00:46:19

a lot, you know, humanitarian

aid, like medical, educational,

800

: 00:46:24

everything is needed in Syria.

801

: 00:46:28

Um, thank no, and thank you

for, for sharing that as well.

802

: 00:46:31

Um, I'll be sure if, if, you know, after

this, if you would like to send over any

803

: 00:46:35

links as well, websites where people can.

804

: 00:46:38

Uh, donate or learn more.

805

: 00:46:40

Of course, we'll have that

in the in the description.

806

: 00:46:43

Um, but before, uh, before we

continue on with that, I wanted to

807

: 00:46:47

also, uh, I wanted to ask was writing

was writing this book because you

808

: 00:46:52

definitely go way more in depth.

809

: 00:46:54

Um, I wasn't able to read the entire

thing, but I read, uh, definitely a lot

810

: 00:46:58

of it and you do go way more in depth.

811

: 00:47:02

Was it was it therapeutic for you to

write that what did it help to Get

812

: 00:47:08

these thoughts out onto paper and to

kind of go through them Um, did you did

813

: 00:47:13

you find it beneficial in any way or

was it just difficult the entire time?

814

: 00:47:19

Exactly.

815

: 00:47:19

It helps me a lot because you

know, I always feel like I

816

: 00:47:23

had a burden on my shoulder.

817

: 00:47:25

I it's a responsibility.

818

: 00:47:27

I know about these Children and I said

many Children who suffered or who died.

819

: 00:47:32

No one see them but me.

820

: 00:47:34

I mean, no one knows about them

but me and it's a responsibility.

821

: 00:47:38

They shouldn't go in this way and and just

they were killed with their dreams with

822

: 00:47:44

their suffer and no one know about them.

823

: 00:47:46

And I felt I have to tell

everyone their stories.

824

: 00:47:49

Everyone.

825

: 00:47:50

I mean, because the criminals still,

you know, The president still as

826

: 00:47:54

a president now in Syria with,

you know, all the people around

827

: 00:47:58

him who support him and they must.

828

: 00:48:02

hold accountable for what they did.

829

: 00:48:04

So we need justice for these people.

830

: 00:48:07

So telling this story, writing this

book is, you know, it helps me before

831

: 00:48:11

helping everyone that I, I tell these

stories, you know, I will, I will die.

832

: 00:48:17

No, I will not live forever,

but this story should stay.

833

: 00:48:21

And everyone who read this story, I wish

they try to get justice for these people.

834

: 00:48:29

Yeah.

835

: 00:48:30

And it's, it's a, it's very impactful.

836

: 00:48:32

Your, your book is, is very well

written, cover some very, very intense

837

: 00:48:37

stuff that, um, I think is important

for people to, to read and to hear

838

: 00:48:42

about, because it really does put

into perspective, um, you know, for

839

: 00:48:47

example, for myself, it, you know, puts.

840

: 00:48:50

My life into perspective and just

seeing how lucky, uh, I am to be where

841

: 00:48:56

I am and, and, um, very fortunate,

you know, and, and to really just

842

: 00:49:00

give myself gratitude, uh, or to find

gratitude and, and being so lucky.

843

: 00:49:05

Um, and it, it, it really makes me

want to, uh, to definitely learn

844

: 00:49:09

more and to help out as well.

845

: 00:49:10

So, uh, I really appreciate

you doing what you're doing.

846

: 00:49:14

Um, you know, I hope you continue

on, keep spreading it, spreading this

847

: 00:49:17

message, because, uh, like you said,

you know, of course, we're all going to

848

: 00:49:20

eventually die one day, but, um, these

stories can absolutely live on and very

849

: 00:49:25

well should, and I think there's some

very valuable lessons in them and, and

850

: 00:49:28

I really applaud you for, for taking

the time to, uh, to write this book

851

: 00:49:32

and, and get your message out there.

852

: 00:49:35

Thank you so much.

853

: 00:49:36

Yeah, I'm really thankful because

you helped with this book.

854

: 00:49:39

Tell this story.

855

: 00:49:40

Also, thank you so much.

856

: 00:49:42

And you're really just it's our

responsibility, you know, to know

857

: 00:49:46

about other people who suffer.

858

: 00:49:48

If we are safe, I'm safe now with

my Children, you know, everyone who

859

: 00:49:52

is, you know, sitting in safe place.

860

: 00:49:54

I wish you stay safe.

861

: 00:49:56

Always.

862

: 00:49:57

I wish there's no more

wars around the world.

863

: 00:50:00

But we have to think about

each other as a human beings.

864

: 00:50:03

This is the goal of the life.

865

: 00:50:06

Absolutely.

866

: 00:50:07

Um, yeah, Dr.

867

: 00:50:08

Amani here, uh, as we start getting to

the end of this episode here, um, I would

868

: 00:50:14

like to, uh, take a moment first off.

869

: 00:50:16

Um, with one last question as

well as, well, actually maybe

870

: 00:50:20

two more questions there.

871

: 00:50:21

Um, but first off, let's start with

what does the future of Syria look like?

872

: 00:50:29

What do you think is going to

come in the next five to 10 years?

873

: 00:50:33

Do you see, you know, uh, a possibility

for change in the country or, or does it

874

: 00:50:40

seem like it might take longer than that?

875

: 00:50:42

Well, I decided to stay hopeful.

876

: 00:50:46

You know, and this is a decision,

actually, because the situation is very

877

: 00:50:50

bad, and we can see help, you know, for

maybe, but I decided to stay hopeful.

878

: 00:50:56

We will fight.

879

: 00:50:57

I mean, if we fight for something,

I'm fighting for justice.

880

: 00:51:01

I'm fighting to helping the people.

881

: 00:51:03

So if we fight For something and we

believe that it's not gonna happen.

882

: 00:51:06

So, you know, it's not you.

883

: 00:51:10

You can't fight.

884

: 00:51:11

I mean, you can't do what

you have to do in good way.

885

: 00:51:15

So I decided to stay hopeful.

886

: 00:51:17

And I wish for Syria.

887

: 00:51:19

And I'm sure this will happen someday.

888

: 00:51:22

Just as hold the criminals accountable.

889

: 00:51:24

They will leave Syria to presence

and we will back to our country.

890

: 00:51:30

rebuild our country and, you

know, try to help each other.

891

: 00:51:34

The Syrians, especially, you know,

all the Syrians are really, they want

892

: 00:51:39

to build their country so we can help

each other and make our country great.

893

: 00:51:45

Yeah, I love that.

894

: 00:51:47

Um, yeah, and I'm staying hopeful as well.

895

: 00:51:50

Um, I think that's a good

way to look at things, right?

896

: 00:51:54

It doesn't doesn't help to

be pessimistic about it.

897

: 00:51:57

Um, so I think keeping an

optimistic outlook is a great idea.

898

: 00:52:01

Um, the last question here

that I have for you, Dr.

899

: 00:52:03

Amani, um, as someone who has, you

know, experienced more than many people

900

: 00:52:08

will ever experience in their lifetime.

901

: 00:52:10

What are, what would be three pieces

of advice or wisdom that you would like

902

: 00:52:15

to just, if you could leave that with

everybody on the planet, uh, what would

903

: 00:52:19

those three pieces of advice or wisdom be?

904

: 00:52:22

Well, try to know more about

other people, other stories, and,

905

: 00:52:29

and believe that you can help.

906

: 00:52:32

Don't underestimate yourself.

907

: 00:52:35

your efforts.

908

: 00:52:37

Do your part.

909

: 00:52:38

I mean, in this life, every

one of us has have to do their

910

: 00:52:44

parts and I'm doing my part.

911

: 00:52:46

If everyone, you know,

do it is responsibility.

912

: 00:52:49

It's not something that we just volunteer

if I want to help these people or not.

913

: 00:52:54

No, you have to help everyone.

914

: 00:52:57

And someday you need help, you know?

915

: 00:52:59

So just think about about this.

916

: 00:53:02

Think about other people

and do something for them.

917

: 00:53:05

Don't say like, for example,

I'm not talking about only

918

: 00:53:07

Syria, about everywhere.

919

: 00:53:09

Many places, you know,

people are suffering.

920

: 00:53:11

Many, many places in the world.

921

: 00:53:13

So just think about these people.

922

: 00:53:15

Don't say, no, I don't care.

923

: 00:53:16

Syria is far other, you know,

is far and we are okay here.

924

: 00:53:20

No, we have to help each other.

925

: 00:53:23

So this is my advice for everyone,

especially for the young people

926

: 00:53:27

who are, you know, the hope

now, the young generation.

927

: 00:53:30

And I'm really happy to see young

people now are, you know, they

928

: 00:53:34

care about these good issues.

929

: 00:53:38

They care about everything about

the people who are suffering, the

930

: 00:53:41

innocent people, about the earth,

talking about the climate change.

931

: 00:53:45

It's, you know, something promise.

932

: 00:53:49

Yeah, yeah, I think, uh, once

again, just kind of coming back

933

: 00:53:53

to that, that term of community.

934

: 00:53:56

Um, but rather looking at community

as everyone on the planet, right?

935

: 00:54:00

Like, we're a global community and,

um, you know, we're all neighbors to

936

: 00:54:04

1 another and extending a hand, like

you said, can be so beneficial because

937

: 00:54:08

you never know when you're going to

need, uh, someone to help you as well.

938

: 00:54:12

Um, so, yeah, having that compassion

to, to help each other out.

939

: 00:54:15

I think it's extremely important.

940

: 00:54:18

Exactly.

941

: 00:54:18

Yeah, this is what I mean.

942

: 00:54:20

Yeah.

943

: 00:54:21

I love that.

944

: 00:54:21

Dr.

945

: 00:54:21

Amani.

946

: 00:54:22

Well, I want to open the floor here

for you, uh, as we wrap up this episode

947

: 00:54:26

to just let people know where they

can find you, where they can connect

948

: 00:54:30

with you, where they can learn more.

949

: 00:54:32

Um, of course, like I said, we'll go

ahead and put all of this in this,

950

: 00:54:35

in the description of the show, but

please go ahead and take this moment

951

: 00:54:39

to share whatever you would like to

share with, uh, the listeners here.

952

: 00:54:43

Well, I wish everyone.

953

: 00:54:45

Read the book.

954

: 00:54:45

It will give you a very good

idea about the Syrian situation,

955

: 00:54:51

what happened in Syria.

956

: 00:54:53

And it's, you know, the

publisher is National Geographic.

957

: 00:54:56

You can find it everywhere, I

mean, in bookstores and online.

958

: 00:55:00

And, uh, you can find me if you want

to contact me on my social media.

959

: 00:55:06

I mean, Facebook, Instagram, and etc.

960

: 00:55:09

Okay.

961

: 00:55:12

Awesome.

962

: 00:55:12

Yeah.

963

: 00:55:13

Um, I'm not sure if I've followed you on

there yet, so I will be doing so for sure.

964

: 00:55:18

Um, and we will definitely

keep in touch Dr.

965

: 00:55:20

Amani.

966

: 00:55:21

Um, once again, from the bottom of my

heart, thank you so much for all of the

967

: 00:55:25

work that you've done and continue to do.

968

: 00:55:27

And uh, it was absolutely an honor

to have you on this podcast and

969

: 00:55:32

yeah, I really appreciate you.

970

: 00:55:33

So thank you so much.

971

: 00:55:34

Thank you.

972

: 00:55:35

Thank you so much for having me.

973

: 00:55:37

My, that honor is all mine.

974

: 00:55:39

Well, thank you so much, everyone.

975

: 00:55:41

Uh, please go ahead and

get in touch with Dr.

976

: 00:55:44

Mani, find her on Instagram or any of

the socials and, uh, educate ourselves.

977

: 00:55:49

Let's do our best to do that and, uh,

contribute in whatever way that we can.

978

: 00:55:53

Um, till then we'll see you on the next

episode and thank you all very much.